To People Who say DC vs. Brock is bs...

[Elysianwing]

You disagree with my statement? You think a win over a former champion who isn't in his prime weigh ins more than a win over a contender at his prime, just because this contender never was a champion? That doesn't make any sense to me. Context matters. Werdum's win over Minotauro was cool, finished him and proved himself to be one of the best grapplers at the HW division, sure. But to me, his win over Travis Browne, who many saw as the next champion at heavyweight, was much more meaningful, you have to take WHEN the fight happened in consideration, or Mittrione's win over a shot Fedor is as relevant as Werdum's win?

Yeah, you're just reinforcing my opinion now to be honest.

 

[krelianx]

I don't think its a minority, I'd say this community is split 50/50 but alot of people arent going to argue with it because its pointless. Dana is going to do what he wants.

As for the entertainment value of this fight, I don't see the appeal. Brock had a favorable match up while juicing against a guy with bad TDD. At least with Conor there is some legitimate hype to his fights. Brock is just someone who cashes in on his WWE career. He isn't particularly elite, especially at this point, and his style isn't favorable against DC.

This fight is simply happening to get NASCAR and WWE fans to watch instead of longtime real MMA fans, and thats what people resent

You said "spectators" not "community", unless you think they are the same. Certainly, the two fights don't have similar consumer demand. So...

I would also throw in a poll if I could here, to see what the "community" feels. My guess is you'd be surprised.

 

[FrankieNYC]

I don't think its a minority, I'd say this community is split 50/50 but alot of people arent going to argue with it because its pointless. Dana is going to do what he wants.

This community bitches about everything

The fact that DC/Stipe did an early estimate of under 400k in PPV buys is proof of what fans want

as @LouisBolanos points out daily
Most on here stream for free
WTF would UFC cater to them?

 

[executionermma]

Yeah, you're just reinforcing my opinion now to be honest.

Heh. Do you mind elaborating, please? We were discussing legacy. I didn't missed your point, i just think you're totally mistaken. There's no way a win over a former champion in Lesnar adds more to DC's legacy than a win over a real contender. That's not true, not at all.

Sure you can complain about it but understand the UFC is just doing what it's supposed to do as a business: serving its majority customer base, which in turn serves its own financial interests, instead of holding on to some fantastical moral code. You might not like it but there's nothing wrong with it.

I do not like it, hence i'm complaining about it, while i understand why this is happening.

 

[welcometohavoc]

This community bitches about everything

The fact that DC/Stipe did an early estimate of under 400k in PPV buys is proof of what fans want

I dont really care what the buyrate was as long as the UFC remains profitable and afloat. This get rich quick shit with CM Punk and Brock doesn't cut it.


Plenty of sports aren't raking in billions but they're still profitable and have integrity

 

[Elysianwing]

Heh. Do you mind elaborating, please? We were discussing legacy. I didn't missed your point, i just think you're totally mistaken. There's no way a win over a former champion in Lesnar adds more to DC's legacy than a win over a real contender. It does not.
I do not like it, hence i'm complaining about it, while i understand why this is happening.

Okay I'll explain it to you, knowing already that you will disagree.

Former champions have actually accomplished something, contenders have not. Beating someone who has accomplished something means far more, than beating someone you are speculating might one day accomplish something.

Werdum beating Browne means far less, to his legacy, than beating Nog. At the time, you could've argued as you are doing, and people would've agreed...but we have seen Browne wash out since...having accomplished nothing. If they all were retired tomorrow, there is no argument you could make to value a win over Travis higher than a win over one of the best HW's ever. Similarly, if Stipe and Francis and JDS were to retire tomorrow, nobody of sane mind would argue beating Ngannou was of more value to Stipe's legacy than beating JDS, a former champion.

Beating Brock tomorrow, does more for DC's legacy, than beating a guy who may or may not ever reach the top.

 

[FrankieNYC]

I dont really care what the buyrate was as long as the UFC remains profitable and afloat. This get rich quick shit with CM Punk and Brock doesn't cut it.


Plenty of sports aren't raking in billions but they're still profitable and have integrity

OK
That has nothing to do with what I said though

The minority is those that don't want the fight.
Majority do.
THAT is what I responded to

I don't agree with second, third & fourth place teams getting in the playoffs in major sports.
But they do because more people watch it & want it & it gets the bigger market teams more chance to play more games.

All sports make decisions based on money

Prize Fighting is the most obvious

 

[welcometohavoc]

You said "spectators" not "community", unless you think they are the same. Certainly, the two fights don't have similar consumer demand. So...

I would also throw in a poll if I could here, to see what the "community" feels. My guess is you'd be surprised.

The fact that so many people in this community, a 20 year old Mixed Martial Arts forum, actually want to see DC/Brock is proof positive that the two are the same. There has been plenty of casual/WWE crossover into Sherdog over the years.

I've always put the blame on the "fans" for the push towards sports entertainment. Ultimately they're the ones responsible for skipping PPV's like TJ/Cody or Edgar/Aldo in favor of CM Punk vs. Journalist or "I havent won a fight in 8 years with PED's" Brock Lesnar vs. DC.

 

[FrankieNYC]

Beating Brock tomorrow, does more for DC's legacy, than beating a guy who may or may not ever reach the top.

It does more for MMA as well
Since there will be more media covering it.

Again, DC won the chance to fight Brock.
Stipe lost it

I feel bad bc that would have been his big payday, but DC won fair & square

 

[welcometohavoc]

OK
That has nothing to do with what I said though

The minority is those that don't want the fight.
Majority do.
THAT is what I responded to

I don't agree with second, third & forth place teams getting in the playoffs in major sports.
But they do because more people watch it & want it & it gets the bigger market teams more chance to play more games.

All sports make decisions based on money

Prize Fighting is the most obvious

Can you back up that assertion? That the majority want this fight?

As for 4th place teams getting in, the only people who favor that are fans of the 4th place teams, so to continue the analogy., the only people that I should expect actually want to see Brock vs. DC are Brock fans

 

[executionermma]

Okay I'll explain it to you, knowing already that you will disagree.

Former champions have actually accomplished something, contenders have not. Beating someone who has accomplished something means far more, than beating someone you are speculating might one day accomplish something.

Werdum beating Browne means far less, to his legacy, than beating Nog. At the time, you could've argued as you are doing, and people would've agreed...but we have seen Browne wash out since...having accomplished nothing. If they all were retired tomorrow, there is no argument you could make to value a win over Travis higher than a win over one of the best HW's ever. Similarly, if Stipe and Francis and JDS were to retire tomorrow, nobody of sane mind would argue beating Ngannou was of more value to Stipe's legacy than beating JDS, a former champion.

Beating Brock tomorrow, does more for DC's legacy, than beating a guy who may or may not ever reach the top.

Yeah i definitely disagree. With that logic i would have to rank Kelvin Gastelum win over a totally shot Vitor Belfort higher than a win over contender Jacare Souza, what i totally disagree with and isn't even debatable, Jacare dominated Belfort a few fights ago.
A win over Blaydes would add much more to DC's legacy than a win over Lesnar, in my opinion. Agree to disagree..

 

[Elysianwing]

It does more for MMA as well
Since there will be more media covering it.

Again, DC won the chance to fight Brock.
Stipe lost it

I feel bad bc that would have been his big payday, but DC won fair & square

You never know though, if Brock were to win, there'd be the strong probability that Stipe would cash in on it anyhow.

 

[LouisBolanos]

He is like warm butter to my waffley eyes brah.

You have great taste in men my friend

 

[FrankieNYC]

You never know though, if Brock were to win, there'd be the strong probability that Stipe would cash in on it anyhow.

Exactly
It would be an even bigger fight

I'm just discussing the next fight

 

[FrankieNYC]

You have great taste in men my friend

I love how some "phobes" are disgusted by that lol

 

[Elysianwing]

Yeah i definitely disagree. With that logic i would have to rank Kelvin Gastelum win over a totally shot Vitor Belfort higher than contender Jacare Souza, what i totally disagree with and isn't even debatable, Jacare dominated Belfort a few fights ago. A win over Blaydes would add much more to DC's legacy than a win over Lesnar, in my opinion. Agree to disagree..

That is a false comparison though. Jacare was on top of the division for several years, and has won titles in other credible organizations.

 

[welcometohavoc]

It does more for MMA as well
Since there will be more media covering it.

Again, DC won the chance to fight Brock.
Stipe lost it

I feel bad bc that would have been his big payday, but DC won fair & square

The fact that you believe that is telling. Ultimately there is no right and wrong here. Its simply a matter of priorities. I view this as a sport, whose entertainment value comes from the high level of competition itself. You view it as a spectacle, where anything that can garner ratings and buys is a legit avenue to explore

 

[Elysianwing]

The fact that you believe that is telling. Ultimately there is no right and wrong here. Its simply a matter of priorities. I view this as a sport, whose entertainment value comes from the high level of competition itself. You view it as a spectacle, where anything that can garner ratings and buys is a legit avenue to explore

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[krelianx]

The fact that so many people in this community, a 20 year old Mixed Martial Arts forum, actually want to see DC/Brock is proof positive that the two are the same. There has been plenty of casual/WWE crossover into Sherdog over the years.

I've always put the blame on the "fans" for the push towards sports entertainment. Ultimately they're the ones responsible for skipping PPV's like TJ/Cody or Edgar/Aldo in favor of CM Punk vs. Journalist or "I havent won a fight in 8 years with PED's" Brock Lesnar vs. DC.

Wait, now you're confusing me. Your original claim was the the spectators saw this as a sport first and foremost, and then your second claim was that this community is split 50/50, and finally you claimed that the community and the spectators are the same.

This can't be right.

You seem to be suggesting that the majority of spectators, which include 50% of this community but exceed (considerably) in total numbers 100% of this community, are young fans that crossed over from pro-Wrestling and favor entertainment. In other words:

% of this community who wants DC vs. Brock + # of spectators who want DC vs. Brock who do not belong to this community > % of this community who don't want DC vs. Brock + # of spectators who don't want DC vs. Brock who do not belong to this community

Which bottoms out in

Spectators who want DC vs. Brock > Spectators who don't want DC vs. Brock

 

[executionermma]

That is a false comparison though. Jacare was on top of the division for several years, and has won titles in other credible organizations.

The same can be said about Volkov. He's undefeated in UFC, former Bellator and M-1 Global champion, won the Bellator HW Grand Prix.

Lesnar hasn't done shit officially in the last 7 years. In my opinion context and timing matters.

I would use Shad as a example then, let's forget for a second that Bader is the Bellator LHW champion, for me Glover Teixeira's win over Ryan Bader does much more for him than a win over a totally shot Evans, former UFC champion. I understood what you said but to me it really seems absurd. A win over a former champion is only relevant to me if this fighter is still performing at high level and we don't even know if Lesnar is a top 5 heavyweight, i'm pretty sure he is not and without steroids i would argue he wouldn't be even top 15. He doesn't have the skills or recent resume to back it up.