Time to stop giving Egypt billions in aid.

[HunterSdVa29]

Personally I don't agree with it, there's short term gain but in the long run Egyptians remember who propped up the vicious dictators in their country. Like in Iran I think it pushed the Egyptian people away from us long term and I also think its just plain unethical and unsustainable to prop up dictators.

But I do understand it and I don't expect things to change anytime soon.

Tunisia seems to be setting a decent example in that region
perhaps other countries will take notice?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Tunisia seems to be setting a decent example in that region
perhaps other countries will take notice?

Things are precarious there as well but definitely better than Egypt

We'll see but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[MicroBrew]

they just had a great VisualPolitik En on this specific thing today

the only thing keeping the Muslim Brotherhood and the other Salafist group from taking control in Egypt is the military. That's why we fund it. Of all the situations in ME/NA this actually makes the most sense to me, maybe that's just me

We basically support 1 thug to keep another thug from power. He is also repressing secular opponents. Egyptians will blame us, and rightly so to an extent, for their condition. Supporting guys like Sisi only engenders hate towards us and repeats the same old shitty US foreign policy of supporting tyrants if they are pro US.

We could just not support anyone at all. We could support the secularists to create a pluralistic democracy where everyone enjoys the same rights.

Ultimately the problem really is Islam, because the ideology is so anti democracy and all controlling that no Islamic country can be democratic unless the public are not especially enamored with Islam running things. So far Indonesia and Malaysia seem relatively democratic because the public hasn't yet given-in to the staunch Islamic parties. But there are lots of ominous signs, like the ousting and imprisonment of the Christian ethnic Chinese governor of Jakarta at the behest of Islamic parties, working in cahoots with opposition figures.

In the MidEast and Arab world, the public first needs to shun Islam before democracy can take hold. If the West was sectarian, we would never have progressed with Democracy. The other major issue is the tribal nature of the MidEast and Arabs especially. Egyptian actor Omar Sharif laid it out bluntly: Democracy doesn't work with Arabs because Arabs are a tribal people. The same could be said for Jews in Israel; they too are tribal. Lebanon seems democratic but only because they gave in to tribalism and allowed the 3 major sects to each have some power. But as the Christians diminish, due to much higher Muslim births, Lebanon will become less democratic.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

My bad i too am for the laissez faire approach, i just neant IF we're involved then this makes sense over the alternative
Is the Suez Canal still AS vital?

 

[Bloodworth]

Egypt was a dictatorship under Mubarack, a dictatorship the US was fine with until the Arab spring happened.

All the Obama admin did was support democracy , they did not specifically support the Brotherhood because they were pro-Brotherhood. A feature of supporting Democrasy was to support the ability of Egyptians to organize politically and support parties. The Brotherhood was just the largest and most organized of the political parties.

It isn't reparations.The US was giving Egypt billions every year before the Brotherhood attained power under Mursi. And why would supporting Egypt's democratic process make the US culpable for reparations? "Reparations" is such a wrong term to use in this instance.

There was a lot of suffering and chaos from the u.s. ushering in the brotherhood when they were not even invited to the table..
It was forced upon them.

Brotherhood is also banned in Syria, obamas enemy.

Obama took out gadaffi and gave them Libya and is now where they reside

Democrats love em, rest of the Muslim world not so much...

Egyptians had to stay strong and not let American intervention democracy turn out like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria.

 

[Bloodworth]

If by "hand Egypt to the Muslim Brotherhood" you mean let them democratize and freely elect the Brotherhood then you'd be right. Morsi was elected in and then pushed out of office by the military via a coup. He had many, many supporters in the country and still does. If there was a free and fair election between Sisi and Morsi today, Morsi would most likely win.

Morsi was elected in because Obama destroyed the prior leadership by supporting anti government propaganda and rebels the same way Libya and gadaffi were over thrown.

Seems Egyptian wanted things to stay the way they were prior to any talk of elections and is why they had to start the coup in the first place

 

[tkotom]

Cut all foreign aid to he Middle East except Kurds

You can always spot the person who knows nothing about the Middle East when they ass lick Kurds and hold them up as a beacon of hope.

Fool.

 

[MicroBrew]

There was a lot of suffering and chaos from the u.s. ushering in the brotherhood when they were not even invited to the table..
It was forced upon them.

Brotherhood is also banned in Syria, obamas enemy.

Obama took out gadaffi and gave them Libya and is now where they reside

Democrats love em, rest of the Muslim world not so much...

Egyptians had to stay strong and not let American intervention democracy turn out like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Syria.

You are off-base; you are making it sound like the Obama admin favored the MB, when that is not the case.

The Brotherhood is a legitimate political party. The US supported democratic principles. The MB had tremendous grassroots support, which is why they got voted in. Dems neither love nor hate the MB. They just accept them as a major Egyptian political party. When you support democracy, you have to afford all political parties the right to contest elections. You don't get to choose who gets to participate and win.

Obama was against taking out Qaddafi. Obama, being the C.I.C., was just the pointman for an agenda pushed by Israel, Britain, France, Hillary, McCain and Neocons. Obama was very reluctant to intervene in Libya leading to Republicans attacking him for it. Republicans criticized Obama as "leading from behind" for not being eager to depose Qaddafi. And Libya isn't a MB country, it is in a civil war between rival factions.

If Syria was Obama's enemy then he would have deposed Assad. You know who wanted to overthrow Assad? McCain, Graham, Britain, France, the GCC, the Turks, some Israel supporters and Hillary. Obama resisted all these people and prevented the US from intervening directly. Obama was attacked by Republicans for not attacking Assad, after the later crossed Obama's redline.

You are turning reality on its head and just plane making stuff up. Be glad Obama was president, because if it was Romney, McCain or Hillary, the US would have overthrown Assad.

 

[Bloodworth]

You are off-base; you are making it sound like the Obama admin favored the MB, when that is not the case.

The Brotherhood is a legitimate political party. The US supported democratic principles. The MB had tremendous grassroots support, which is why they got voted in. Dems neither love nor hate the MB. They just accept them as a major Egyptian political party. When you support democracy, you have to afford all political parties the right to contest elections. You don't get to choose who gets to participate and win.

Obama was against taking out Qaddafi. Obama, being the C.I.C., was just the pointman for an agenda pushed by Israel, Britain, France, Hillary, McCain and Neocons. Obama was very reluctant to intervene in Libya leading to Republicans attacking him for it. Republicans criticized Obama as "leading from behind" for not being eager to depose Qaddafi. And Libya isn't a MB country, it is in a civil war between rival factions.

If Syria was Obama's enemy then he would have deposed Assad. You know who wanted to overthrow Assad? McCain, Graham, Britain, France, the GCC, the Turks, some Israel supporters and Hillary. Obama resisted all these people and prevented the US from intervening directly. Obama was attacked by Republicans for not attacking Assad, after the later crossed Obama's redline.

You are turning reality on its head and just plane making stuff up. Be glad Obama was president, because if it was Romney, McCain or Hillary, the US would have overthrown Assad.

And where is the brotherhood now? recognized as a terror group and banned from Syria and Egypt.

Obama asked Congress for war with Syria and was denied....

You make Obama sound like a puppet not responsible for his administration

He wasn't just sucking back new ports In the white house...His ancestry was on his mind

 

[The Merchant]

The usa intervened and helped Israel in the 50s till 70s when Egypt attacked Israel and was about to smash them to oblivion. I agree, they shouldn't have intervened. Now Israel has become a growing cancer.

It's to do with the suez canal, it's one of the most important shipping lanes. Eisenhower sent peacekeeping troops there, but then the Israeli's started doing false flag attacks on US Troops pretending to be Egyptian, see Operation Susannah or the Lavon Affair for that.

Israel bombed Egyptian airforce first, a pre-emptive strike as Egypt was amassing troops on it's side of the border. They then Sunk the USS Liberty again trying to blame it on Egypt but people survived so it was hushed up.

The UK did a good job fucking up things by starting the suez campaign as well.

 

[woodguyatl]

Why is the USA still giving Egypt billions in aid? Is it keep-isreal-happy-hush money?

Pakistan just came under review and was deemed inadmissible for new hush money. The top brass steals it, average people dont see it and they do fuck all with it. No fighting terrorism, nothing. So useless as usual.

The best thing for Egypt is to have aid cut. That way then can pull their own socks up. They are very fatalistic with no work ethic. So the average Egyptian prays slavishly to a deity for food and gets it. Not realizing the food from a western power like the USA in the form of billions of dollars. They keep thinking it's going to come indefinitely. That's called mass delusion. One aid is cut, after a few religious nuts take over and there is a civil war, they will learn how to be industrious.

1 - It is the ongoing payment since in 1978 for the peace with Israel.
2 - US Navy ships get priority through the Suez
3 - A large amount the aid is not actual money but US manufactured weapon in lieu of aid. Gotta feed the defense machine.

 

[cincymma79]

All we need are more Kurds. Turkey would be delighted.

Fuck turkey

 

[cincymma79]

You can always spot the person who knows nothing about the Middle East when they ass lick Kurds and hold them up as a beacon of hope.

Fool.

Are you keeping track with the Kurds are doing at least in Iraq

 

[CauseImbetta]

Fuck turkey

You mean fuck Israel. Stay consistent with the theme.

Anyway, turkey is legitimate, Kurdistan isn't.

 

[EZShrimpn]

Erdogan is a cunt.

 

[cincymma79]

You mean fuck Israel. Stay consistent with the theme.

Anyway, turkey is legitimate, Kurdistan isn't.

I think you’re not keeping track of turkey well

 

[Islam Imamate]

Morsi was elected in because Obama destroyed the prior leadership by supporting anti government propaganda and rebels the same way Libya and gadaffi were over thrown.

Seems Egyptian wanted things to stay the way they were prior to any talk of elections and is why they had to start the coup in the first place

The people were tired of Mubarak and the Jasmine Revolution in Tunisia was the inspiration they needed to get on the streets. They didn't need "anti-government propaganda", they lived the experience of Mubarak's rule for thirty years and were sick of it. There were no "rebels", Mubarak was pushed out by protest.

I know you want to blame Obama for everything and make it seem like everything he did was some cynical, evil plot but Egyptians were legitimately tired of Mubarak and wanted a free and fair election and they worked hard to get one. Problem is Egypt is very polarized and the guy who won that free and fair election is not the guy Egyptian elites or the West had in mind(Obama famously said he wanted the "Google guy" to become president) so it was easy for the Egyptian military to wait for a moment of weakness for Morsi and then strike to get him out.

 

[Seano]

Yea no kidding...

it's almost as if Egypt has us paying through our nose....like a PYRAMID scheme.


anyone?? anyone?? pyramid?

get it?

anyone?

That joke Sphinx.

 

[Islam Imamate]

We could just not support anyone at all. We could support the secularists to create a pluralistic democracy where everyone enjoys the same rights.

Ultimately the problem really is Islam, because the ideology is so anti democracy and all controlling that no Islamic country can be democratic unless the public are not especially enamored with Islam running things

This is not really true, in fact its the other way around. The Islamists are the one who prefer democracy while its the secularists who are against it in Egypt, the reason being very rational and self-interested. Most Egyptians are fairly religious Muslims, not secularists, so the secularists know they could never win a free and fair election which is why they usually rally behind the military.

Islamists like the MB and the Salafist party know they have an edge in grassroots organization and popular support so they welcome democracy since they know they can win.

To be fair there are young secularists who want a secular democracy but they are such a minority and they are so poorly organized they failed to make any impact in the one free and fair election in Egypt.

 

[uptheirons!]

And where is the brotherhood now? recognized as a terror group and banned from Syria and Egypt.

Obama asked Congress for war with Syria and was denied....

You make Obama sound like a puppet not responsible for his administration

He wasn't just sucking back new ports In the white house...His ancestry was on his mind

Obama went to Congress because even though the chickenhawk fucks were criticizing him for "being weak" on Syria he knew those degenerates wouldn't approve it cause the public wouldn't support another war at that time.