Thoughts On Duane Ludwig's Style of Teaching

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by biscuitsbrah, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    Is it just a cheesy short cut to striking or what? I think the shifting is great when setting up kicks or in short combos like how MMA is built around, but at the same time boxing and throwing punches from a different stance regularly is almost madness. Only one Ive seen effective is Andre Ward and im not sure if he even goes southpaw that much.

    He basically wants all his students proficient at both orthodox and southpaw. Which makes sense from an mma perspective because there is more than just punches in mma, you can do takedowns and kicks of both shifts and different stances and its not very hard to get good at in comparison to just hands.

    At what point does one sacrifice fundamentals for creativity?

     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  2. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    His students do pretty well, and when I see his amateurs fight locally they're not doing a ton of shifting, they look like pretty rote (but good!) Dutch style KBers.

    But in terms of switching stances more generally, it's not that big of a deal. Plenty of guys switch some but then come back to their main stance (Tyson comes to mind, Loma does this a lot, Tyrone Spong, there are quite a few), and some very high level guys will fight for long periods of time out of either stance, Marvin Hagler being one of the most notable. In Muay Thai I don't know that it makes that much difference, especially if you're primarily a kicker and/or knee fighter as your stance tends to be pretty square anyway. I can't box for shit southpaw, but I can kick fine with either leg out of either stance.
     
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  3. ctrlaltdelete

    ctrlaltdelete Purple Belt

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    What about those drills weren't fundamentally good? It's a simple 4 count drill.

    Jab / hook to lowkick, right straight to switch kick. That's pretty basic.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  4. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    No I just like this drill. On his YouTube channel is more of what I'm talking about. Especially the ones tj dillashaw isn't in.

    I mostly watch all the videos dillashaw is in though. Better quality imo
     
  5. Fire of Youth

    Fire of Youth Green Belt

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    Switch hitting has a number of benefits. You have more versatility in the ranges, angles, and defences that you can use. As others have said, there are successful switch hitting boxers. Prince Naseem, Herol Graham, Kell Brooks being three more switch hitters who come out of the Ingles gym which specialises in switch-hitting boxers. I am a big fan of Dwayne Ludwig's work. If you look at his vids, you will notice how well the movements flow from each other, mixing defences in with attacks, and the combos aren't finished until they have moved safely out of range.
     
  6. Ilk

    Ilk Blue Belt

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    Too many ways to fail. This is what I see here. And everybody does the left hook to left round house without balance and some god awful technique. For MMA that is an easy catch to take down I believe. And wtf is this really? Left hook (a short punch) to a left roundhouse - a long kick? Makes sence to get to left knee. Basically a wasted hook. Or even grab to clinch to knee makes sence, but that hook to roundhouse? Without a pause? To at least confuse with tempo and put a decent kick if they go back? Sorry I have been studying too much tactics :D
     
  7. Jimmy Jazz

    Jimmy Jazz Black Belt

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    didnt hoost like to go from left hook to leg kick? or do you mean a body kick?
     
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  8. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

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    Switching and shifting isn't as rare in boxing as you think. It's just done differently. Andre Ward does it like you mentioned, but as well as that Gennady Golovkin does it, so did Floyd Mayweather, Guillermo Rigondeaux, Vasyl Lomachenko and old school boxers like Willie Pep and Archie Moore did it.

    It's just not done in the same way, while there are boxers who will just full on switch stance for a round like Miguel Cotto, usually they do it more in the way a fighter like Max Holloway does, switching on a particular punch.

    I think it's a little more noticable with Bang's style because of how TJ Dillashaw tends to spend quite a bit of time in each stance, but keep in mind he was Chad Mendes' coach as well and Mendes wasn't much of a switch hitter at all.

    I think Ludwig's style is completely legit, if anything I think it just suffers from people misunderstanding it. Some people say its this radical new style of fighting, and because of that its brilliant,but in reality it's nothing that sneaky boxers and thai fighters haven't been doing for decades.
     
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  9. nateallan

    nateallan White Belt

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    The issue I have is that Bang like a lot of MMA and American Muay Thai coaches, are in a big hurry to teach advanced techniques to beginners. Good boxing coaches will build you from the ground up which takes years. Switching and shifting is great for those who have been training for years.
     
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  10. aerius

    aerius Brown Belt

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    I can't say I get it either, I just tried it out for myself and the weight balance & body mechanics don't work, at least not for me. The closest I could get it to functional was throwing the left hook as almost a feint/throwaway punch and chambering the left leg to throw a TKD style roundhouse. When I tried to throw both strikes with decent weight behind them I end up way off balance, even worse than the guys in the video.

    Hoost used the left hook to right low kick, classic Dutch combo. The guys in the video are going left hook to right low kick, then left hook to left body kick.
     
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  11. Ilk

    Ilk Blue Belt

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    Ye right? And it does not make sence to drill this from a distance point of view. What is the point of trowing short (you are in the distance for that hit hopefully) and then follow up with a long. And balance issues of course. These guys are professionals and their technique looks bad when they do it, I do not even want to try it.

    As noted hoost went left hook, pause left low kick. It makes sence to pause and then blast a round house if the opponent backs up. It is usually a free kick in that case. But there needs to be a tempo pause. Few months ago I saw a video of a respected kick boxer who was explaining hits from one side make sence if you practice them with a tempo change. He made an example of 1-2, pause, 2. And then something like 1-2, hook to the body or upper cut to the body, pause (get back to defensive position) trow a high round house left kick (orthodox). Obviously he did it all with a great technique and speed. But he noted that this pause and tempo change is what actually confuses the opponent more, than the fact that you trow 2 hits from one side.
     
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  12. freaky

    freaky Banned Banned

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    Watch southpaw or any other boxing/martial arts film. It's always the underdog switching stance at last minute to throw off the better fighter and come out winning.

    I don't see a reason NOT to train southpaw or both stances. But plenty of goods.
     
  13. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    For everyone complaining about the left hook before the left body kick. It's more of a throwaway punch.

    I really like throwing the right hand before a right head kick. Think Lawler/Macdonald 2. If I remember that was the only setup Rory used. Kinda even poked Lawler in the eye with an open hand the first time
     
  14. Azam

    Azam Purple Belt

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    I think Ludwig is legit as well but he's not doing anything particularly special/unique or new. You'd get the same level/type of instruction with any good MT/Kickboxing coach and in some cases there are probably some coaches/instructors out there that might find provide better instruction.

    I think what he does bring with his instruction that is very unique - is that he's in the rare position of having an extensive professional career in MMA as someone who was primarily a striker. So I think he has a lot of knowledge of how to apply striking in an environment where you can grapple - he has that nuanced experience of how to apply striking in that environment & how to navigate that landscape from a striking perspective - a lot of striking coaches don't necessarily have that kind of know how or experience.

    One thing though that I don't really see in Ludwig's style/instruction is parrying. As someone that tries to do it a lot I find it a bit strange especially coming from a karate background where it's very predominant.
     
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  15. LEGS MAHONEY

    LEGS MAHONEY genetically modified man shark

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    Its a good system. ive been working with one of his guys for the past few months as i felt it was about time to move into MT

    The only thing i feel is their combos can be a bit overly long
     
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  16. Jimmy Jazz

    Jimmy Jazz Black Belt

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    What do you think is a good fight of TJ's to understand the style? I've pretty much only seen his fight with Cruz and Lineker.
     
  17. Paradigm

    Paradigm Gold Belt

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    Just a personal preference but not really a fan of the style. Too "movey" and not "stand and bangy" enough for me. I say this as a fan of both Lyoto and Muay Thai.

    Barao.
     
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  18. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Barao 1 and 2, but basicly every fight since the Easton fight, more or less. His fight with Soto is also worth watching to see him having off days. The style is clearly the best against a stationary target, like Barao. His first fight with Barao was beautiful, then the Soto fight just after was so-so, then Barao 2 again was good.
     
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  19. esum80

    esum80 tiger knee

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    well said. solid fundamentals are key. if you can't even throw something properly in orthodox, then maybe focus on that first before throwing it in southpaw stance or attempting advanced techniques.
     
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  20. Jimmy Jazz

    Jimmy Jazz Black Belt

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    IF tj makes the same mistake he made with cruz of not setting up his kicks with punches, I think Cody is going to win. I think he'll murk him.
     

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