thoughtful pro-gun parent pulls knife on anti-gun student in Socratic dialogue at PTA meeting

[tonni]

This post me had me legit laughing out loud. In a previous post you claimed the person being threatened should have examined the knife instead of backing away in fear.

Then you imply any reasonable person would just parry or deflect a knife as is commonly done with punches in chaotic fights with adrenaline pumping:



Then you finish it off with this amazing gem.



@the ambush in
this thread: "I just don't understand why real life isn't like the movies."

 

[FacePunch]

Yes. Since every knife is the same. Idiot.



lol ever heard of parrying or deflecting a punch? Same principle applies here. Whatever would buy enough time to draw your own weapon. Common sense comes into play obviously. What about a close space scenario with a person holding a baton? What about a close space scenario with a person holding a sword? If we are going to continue with hypothetical scenarios it will be a long list.



A small pocket knife or a box cutter knife is not as lethal as a switchblade knife. I was trying to allude to earlier that knives have multiple uses. But you will have a resident citizen flip out about something they actually know little or nothing about.

Do you know what a fully extended box cutter knife will do when jammed at a person? It will fold and break off at the tip. In hindsight those aircrafts should have never been hijacked.

I don't think you're very well versed in box cutters or razor blades.

You're thinking about one of these:

But what about these:

See the button on that last one? OMFG it's a "switchblade"!!

 

[Scheme]

How many people have died from terrorism attacks vs car crashes in Europe? Obviously, counter terrorism measures are a waste of money!!!

The important distinction is that you aren't importing mass amounts of people who are proven to be high rates of school shooters.

 

[tonni]

The important distinction is that you aren't importing mass amounts of people who are proven to be high rates of school shooters.

I'm not in favor of mass unvetted immigration.

 

[the ambush]

I don't think you're very well versed in box cutters or razor blades.

You're thinking about one of these:

But what about these:

See the button on that last one? OMFG it's a "switchblade"!!

If anything you are just proving my point. That is not a switchblade knife there, Mary.

This post me had me legit laughing out loud. In a previous post you claimed the person being threatened should have examined the knife instead of backing away in fear.

Then you imply any reasonable person would just parry or deflect a knife as is commonly done with punches in chaotic fights with adrenaline pumping:



Then you finish it off with this amazing gem.



@the ambush in
this thread: "I just don't understand why real life isn't like the movies."

I did not say go full out Steven Seagal and break limbs. I was hinting towards parrying or deflecting the knife as opposed to leaving your body exposed to a strike. The main thing would be to buy enough time to draw a weapon. I am sure you and a few other expert LEOs in this thread are subject matter experts so what do I know.

Since you like posting images. I found your picture dude.

 

[JosephDredd]

The important distinction is that you aren't importing mass amounts of people who are proven to be high rates of school shooters.

Have there been any Muslim school shooters?

 

[Scheme]

Have there been any Muslim school shooters?

No, but as far as mass shootings based on % of the population, they are something like like 10x more likely to commit a mass shooting than white people in America.

And I think you missed my point. America school shooters seem to be home-born and there isn't anything easy and simple that the government can do about it. European terrorists tend to be Muslim, but there is definitely something their governments can do about it.

 

[tonni]

If anything you are just proving my point.



I did not say go full out Steven Seagal and break limbs. I was hinting towards parrying or deflecting the knife as opposed to leaving your body exposed to a strike. The main thing would be to buy enough time to draw a weapon. I am sure you and a few other expert LEOs in this thread are subject matter experts so what do I know.



Since you like posting images. I found your picture dude.

Can't see the image.

 

[tonni]

No, but as far as mass shootings based on % of the population, they are something like like 10x more likely to commit a mass shooting than white people in America.

And I think you missed my point. America school shooters seem to be home-born and there isn't anything easy and simple that the government can do about it. European terrorists tend to be Muslim, but there is definitely something their governments can do about it.

I'm not comparing the two problems. It's obvious you guys have a problem the rest of the world hasn't, and it seems obvious why to anyone but gun nuts.

 

[Ophydian]

While a gun in the case of number of peo0le and distance is more effective in most cases you underestimate the damage a knife can do.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_(2010–12)

There’s a reason there is a saying never bring a knife to a gun fight. Range, damage are all on the gun side. I know about the Chinese knife attacks as I was in country when they occurred. While the wiki link you provided claim 25 dead and 115 injured, that wasn’t a single attack but numerous attack over a period of time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenpeng_Village_Primary_School_stabbing

This attack was on 7-8 year olds resulting in 24 injured no fatalities. Once again demonstrating my point that his arguement is rather ridiculous about knives being a reason for armed guards.

 

[JosephDredd]

No, but as far as mass shootings based on % of the population, they are something like like 10x more likely to commit a mass shooting than white people in America.

And I think you missed my point. America school shooters seem to be home-born and there isn't anything easy and simple that the government can do about it. European terrorists tend to be Muslim, but there is definitely something their governments can do about it.

I think you missed your point when you write "school shooters" instead of "mass shooters". I'm just nitpicking you. I know what you meant.

Also, can you link to the statistics you mention in the first paragraph?

 

[oldshadow]

There’s a reason there is a saying never bring a knife to a gun fight. Range, damage are all on the gun side. I know about the Chinese knife attacks as I was in country when they occurred. While the wiki link you provided claim 25 dead and 115 injured, that wasn’t a single attack but numerous attack over a period of time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenpeng_Village_Primary_School_stabbing

This attack was on 7-8 year olds resulting in 24 injured no fatalities. Once again demonstrating my point that his arguement is rather ridiculous about knives being a reason for armed guards.

The point is even with a knife you can kill many people and the best way to stop an armed attacker is with an armed and trained person.

 

[Ophydian]

Board don't stab back. I doubt arming teachers will turn them into green tank top ninja guy.

I agree with this sentiment. There were numerous trained police and sheriffs that when the time came to act, they froze. Putting fire arms in the classroom is not the answer. Turning schools into prisons is not the answer.

 

[Scheme]

I'm not comparing the two problems. It's obvious you guys have a problem the rest of the world hasn't, and it seems obvious why to anyone but gun nuts.

It's obvious if there were no guns there would be no mass shootings. The issue is whether gun control works or not. In theory, it doesn't in the short term and might not even in the long term, because lunatics/criminals would not turn their guns in (while everyone else would) or get them off the black market. In execution, it has both worked and not worked in various places in America. It is also breaking a constitutional right, and an important one at that (the right to adequately defend yourself and your family). What if a gang of 6'4 Yoel Romero's broke into a 5'6 woman's house and decided to beat the shit out of her and rape her? While it's a bit of an unrealistic situation and a gun may not necessarily be the best way to do it, it illustrates a point I think some people are missing. It's like the old saying: "God made man, Sam Colt made man equal". Guns give you the ability to equalize the playing field as far as physical abilities in self-defense.

 

[Ophydian]

The point is even with a knife you can kill many people and the best way to stop an armed attacker is with an armed and trained person.

I disagree and I will go one further that a knife is a silent weapon. How long will it take for armed guards to realize there is an attack and better yet where it is coming from if they can’t hear it’s location. Unless people are advocating to have shooters nest at schools so they can oversee everything going on.

I’d rather have my tax dollars go to improving education not turning schools into prisons.

 

[oldshadow]

Yes. Since every knife is the same. Idiot.



lol ever heard of parrying or deflecting a punch? Same principle applies here. Whatever would buy enough time to draw your own weapon. Common sense comes into play obviously. What about a close space scenario with a person holding a baton? What about a close space scenario with a person holding a sword? If we are going to continue with hypothetical scenarios it will be a long list.



A small pocket knife or a box cutter knife is not as lethal as a switchblade knife. I was trying to allude to earlier that knives have multiple uses. But you will have a resident citizen flip out about something they actually know little or nothing about.

Do you know what a fully extended box cutter knife will do when jammed at a person? It will fold and break off at the tip. In hindsight those aircrafts should have never been hijacked.

Have you ever seen what a box cutter can do to someone.

I knew a guy that had is throat cut by one and one bleed out fast.

I have seen a guy cut so bad it took years of treatment to get him near normal again .

 

[oldshadow]

I disagree and I will go one further that a knife is a silent weapon. How long will it take for armed guards to realize there is an attack and better yet where it is coming from if they can’t hear it’s location. Unless people are advocating to have shooters nest at schools so they can oversee everything going on.

I’d rather have my tax dollars go to improving education not turning schools into prisons.

People make noise when they are being attacked, you know scream and such.

Simple things like locked doors and security is not a prison any more then locking your home.

 

[tonni]

It's obvious if there were no guns there would be no mass shootings. The issue is whether gun control works or not. In theory, it doesn't in the short term and might not even in the long term, because lunatics/criminals would not turn their guns in (while everyone else would) or get them off the black market. In execution, it has both worked and not worked in various places in America. It is also breaking a constitutional right, and an important one at that (the right to adequately defend yourself and your family). What if a gang of 6'4 Yoel Romero's broke into a 5'6 woman's house and decided to beat the shit out of her and rape her? While it's a bit of an unrealistic situation and a gun may not necessarily be the best way to do it, it illustrates a point I think some people are missing. It's like the old saying: "God made man, Sam Colt made man equal". Guns give you the ability to equalize the playing field as far as physical abilities in self-defense.

At least you're admitting that guns are a part of the problem.

Serious question: why do you think the USA is leader when it comes to school shootings and no other country even comes close? Not being clever or insulting American's intelligence or whatever, I legit want to know what gun "fans" think the cause is.

 

[Scheme]

I think you missed your point when you write "school shooters" instead of "mass shooters". I'm just nitpicking you. I know what you meant.

Also, can you link to the statistics you mention in the first paragraph?

Based on top 21 deadliest shootings from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

Total: 21
White: 12.5 = 60%
Black: 3.5 = 17%
Muslim: 2 = 10%
Asian: 2 = 10%
Native American: 1 = 5%

Current % of population as of 2010 census (white % should be higher because there was a greater % of white people in previous years):
White: 73%
Black: 13%
Asian: 5%
Native American: 1%
Muslim: 1%

Rate of mass murder:
White: 73% of people commit 60% of mass murders, white people commit ~18% less mass murders than average
Black: 13% of people commit 17% of mass murders, black people commit ~ 30% more mass murders than average
Muslim: 1% of people commit 10% of mass murders, Muslims commit ~900% more mass murders than average
Asian: 5% of people commit 10% of mass murders, Asians commit ~100% more mass murders than average
Native American: 1% of people commit 5% of mass murders, Native Americans commit ~400% more mass murders than average

Note that the percentage also overestimates the rate of white mass murder (and probably blacks as well), since white % of population should be higher in the previous years when some of these shootings occurred.

While mass shootings are rare enough that these may just be anomalies, they do debunk some myths some people may have.

 

[MiniCraque]

Can someone cliff the whys, whats and hows of that "debate"

Apparently some parents think it's a good idea to arm stressed out, underpaid state employees and throw them in rooms filled with children or even worse, the highly dramatic, hormone-infused sex-crazed creatures we call "teenagers".

A lot of people are wondering why, what's up with that and how is it possible.