1. Come join Sherdog.com writers Ant Walker and Jason Burgos tonight for a live video chat series titled "The Trenches," LIVE Every Thursday at 8 PM ET/5 PM PT!

Thought experiment rd 4 Robert v Yoel

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by fatbino, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. fatbino

    fatbino White Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    81
    Seems like everyone’s disagreement as to who won sort of hinges on rd 4 (or whether 5 was a 10-8, but ignoring that for a moment). So I rewatched just rd 4, and it seems like pretty completely Whitaker’s round, except for the big shot from Yoel at the 4:40 mark which staggered him and then one good follow up shot.

    My question is would anyone have scored the round for Yoel if those shots had happened in the beginning of the round instead of at the end? Be honest.

    I personally gave 4 to Whitaker, and think the best Romero could have done was a draw...
     
    Gregoire1, Vergilius and NGute87 like this.
  2. mayorcrazyeyes

    mayorcrazyeyes MuralEdmond Ali

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,499
    Likes Received:
    6,127
    Location:
    North Dakota
    Romero won, sherdog told me.
     
    RockyLockridge likes this.
  3. Matty da Ranga

    Matty da Ranga Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    659
    Likes Received:
    4,348
    Location:
    I love Pauline
    Romero 1,2,3,4,5

    All rounds were 10-4 in favour of the Soldier of God
     
  4. The Witcher

    The Witcher відродитися

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    8,275
    Likes Received:
    20,295
    Location:
    Australia
    who the fuck is this guy^^
     
  5. Dingaling

    Dingaling Green Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,338
    Likes Received:
    3,162
    I think it's more of people questioning that Romero should've scored a 10-8 in both rounds 3 and 5.
     
  6. RockyLockridge

    RockyLockridge Red Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    8,172
    Likes Received:
    3,182
    This, Which is how i scored it. 47-46 romero
     
  7. billharford

    billharford 181 Likes

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    5,988
    Likes Received:
    16,164
    You bring up a good point. It's one of the more difficult things in judging I would say: Do you score the round for the guy who landed the most, or the guy who did the most damage? In my opinion, Romero came the closest to ending the fight in that round and that should weigh very heavily in the scoring. Also, it shouldn't matter when the devastating blows occurred.

    This is similar to rd 4 between Jones and Gustafsson where Jones landed the big elbow towards the end of the rd. I thought Gus was winning the round, but that strike allowed Jones to carry the 4th and ultimately win the fight.
     
  8. drbolony

    drbolony Blessed Era

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,162
    Likes Received:
    6,147
    Location:
    San Diego
    48-47 Whittaker or 47-47 are the only acceptable answers.
     
  9. kevinramsdell

    kevinramsdell Green Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    Messages:
    1,380
    Likes Received:
    1,339
    nobody is debating about round 4. they are debating that rounds 3 & 5 were both 10-8 which would have given yoel the win.
     
  10. RockyLockridge

    RockyLockridge Red Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    8,172
    Likes Received:
    3,182
    if you give romero the 2 10-8 rounds (3 and 5) IICR, Then you get a 47-46 romero score. and it's more than reasonable to do so. 48-47 whittaker IMO is unacceptable. that implies there were no 10-8 rounds which is just incorrect in relation to the new scoring criteria given
     
  11. Matty da Ranga

    Matty da Ranga Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    659
    Likes Received:
    4,348
    Location:
    I love Pauline
    That last round would've been a 10-8 even under the old scoring criteria, let alone the new one.
     
    GuanoApes and Ken Fresno like this.
  12. WhiteMousse

    WhiteMousse Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,629
    Likes Received:
    3,122
    Round 4 was Robert's. Round 3 was either Whittaker's, Romero's or a draw. Was not a 10-8, that's laughable.

    You can make a case for a 10-8 in Round 5.
     
    KootenayKid likes this.
  13. jeff7b9

    jeff7b9 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    8,072
    Likes Received:
    7,925
    If you can't comprehend a few different scores being possible you are not too bright.

    R1 10-9 RW
    R2. 10-9 RW
    R3. 10-9 YR, 10-8 YR
    R4 10-9 RW, 10-9 YR, 10-10*
    R5 10-9 YR, 10-8 YR

    Final
    48-47 RW
    47-47
    48-47 Yoel
    47-46 Yoel
    48-46 Yoel
    48-45 Yoel
    47-45 Yoel


    * admittedly highly unlikely because 10-10 is almost never scored.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
    RockyLockridge likes this.
  14. SeattleFightFan

    SeattleFightFan Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    27,868
    Likes Received:
    8,421
    the good news is, this debate didn't start and won't end there.

    Sherk v Dunham (i think round 2) was similar. one guy won 30 seconds of the round with a lot more more authority than the other guy who won the rest of it.

    both rounds of Romero v Kennedy had a bit of this as well (let's ignore the glove grab for the sake of this argument.)

    it is worth noting that last year's new Unified Rules did emphasize power shots over volume.

    regardless where this debate goes it's worth remembering that close rounds are - by definition - close. and judges will disagree on close rounds in most any sport.
     
    trident likes this.
  15. Zefram Cochrane

    Zefram Cochrane Red belt in warp theory and practice.

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2015
    Messages:
    9,121
    Likes Received:
    13,700
    Location:
    Bozeman, Montana.
    Immediate damage takes precedence over cumulative damage. It's stated in the new scoring criteria. I don't know if Illinois adopted the new rules, I didn't pay attention.
     
    Mmaprovost and billharford like this.
  16. drbolony

    drbolony Blessed Era

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    6,162
    Likes Received:
    6,147
    Location:
    San Diego
    Yeah that's why. I'd never give Yoel 2 10-8s, so it's not an applicable answer to me.
     
  17. fatbino

    fatbino White Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    81
    No way round 3 was a 10-8. Being dropped once doesn’t make a 10-8 even under the new system. Robert had some pretty good shots in there before and even after getting dropped.

    Round 5, on the other hand, I believe could easily be scored a 10-8. What makes it hard for me to do so is the fact that he ref had to separate them for inactivity. Cmon, if you are dominating 10-8 style you aren’t sleeping in the clinch.
     
  18. Mmaprovost

    Mmaprovost APATHETIC AFICIONADO

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    4,241
    Location:
    Wherever you go, there you are
    Perception changes if it happens at the end opposed to the beginning.

    If it happened 20 seconds in and then Robert controlled the rest of the round it would be clear. Happening towards the end gives the feeling that Yoel came closer to finishing.

    I had it 3 rounds to 1 going into the fifth. (Was there live, 10 feet from cage) and didnt think the fifth was a 10-8. Rewatched the fifth and still had that round 10-9.

    Robert clearly won according to MMA scoring. Yoel clearly won according to common sense, did more damage and almost finished. It's MMA though.

    Would like to see a 3rd fight with title fights moving to 7 rounds.
     
  19. billharford

    billharford 181 Likes

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    5,988
    Likes Received:
    16,164
    Thanks, I didn't know that. I think that's the way it should be.
     
    Zefram Cochrane likes this.
  20. fatbino

    fatbino White Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    81
    Damn 7 rounds. I think Romero might legit collapse at that point. Or have to give up 3-4 rounds just to keep up his gas tank.

    Although it could give rise to 6th round Romero...the deadliest of the late round Romeros
     
    Gregoire1 and Mmaprovost like this.

Share This Page