Law Affirmative Action Abolished: U.S Supreme Court Outlaws Racial Discrimination In College Admissions.

[Falsedawn]

So you are saying those being excluded only have test scores going for them and otherwise they are inferior to those with loser test scores?

Any link to support this?

The case is they limit and admitt by race.

Which unfortunately cast a shadow on those that may be very good but are the race admitted for social reasons.

Let's be real here, the "best and brightest" aren't being rejected here. If you're a renowned classical pianist, or a physics prodigy, you're not getting rejected from schools. The real "victims" of affirmative action are the ones that couldn't cut it on their own merits and have to figure out some reason as to why they didn't make it.

You're the one that's tying the "best and brightest" to test results. If they were truly the best the world had to offer, they wouldn't be in that position. In the Fisher vs. Texas case (the bellcow case for AA detractors) everyone loves to ignore that Fisher was a marginal student and that aside from the like 8 minorities that got in ahead of her, 42 "lesser" white students also gained acceptance over her due to the holistic review process. But apparently the problem was the darkies because the white people always get left out of the recounting of that case.

So tell me, why are white people being afforded the luxury of getting into elite universities with subpar grades? All 42 of them should have been kicked to the curb in favor of Ms. Fisher, and yet they got in and she didn't. So much for that "limit and admit based on race" theory.

 

[oldshadow]

Let's be real here, the "best and brightest" aren't being rejected here. If you're a renowned classical pianist, or a physics prodigy, you're not getting rejected from schools. The real "victims" of affirmative action are the ones that couldn't cut it on their own merits and have to figure out some reason as to why they didn't make it.

You're the one that's tying the "best and brightest" to test results. If they were truly the best the world had to offer, they wouldn't be in that position. In the Fisher vs. Texas case (the bellcow case for AA detractors) everyone loves to ignore that Fisher was a marginal student and that aside from the like 8 minorities that got in ahead of her, 42 "lesser" white students also gained acceptance over her due to the holistic review process. But apparently the problem was the darkies because the white people always get left out of the recounting of that case.

So tell me, why are white people being afforded the luxury of getting into elite universities with subpar grades? All 42 of them should have been kicked to the curb in favor of Ms. Fisher, and yet they got in and she didn't. So much for that "limit and admit based on race" theory.

Thought we were taking about Asians with higher test scores not getting in.

 

[lifelessheap]

Thought we were taking about Asians with higher test scores not getting in.

LoL, he will spin, deflect and then lie after moving the goal posts.

It is a fact that Asians are being rejected for being Asians.

Blatant racism.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Let's be real here, the "best and brightest" aren't being rejected here.

True. The best and the brightest are being let in. But the better and brighter are being rejected because of their race. And that's wrong.

 

[Falsedawn]

Thought we were taking about Asians with higher test scores not getting in.

Uh yeah, and their arguments are literally the same as Fisher. They feel that someone else got in above them because of race when they felt they were the better candidate.

Cool, you have a perfect SAT score, Harvard literally could fill a class with perfect SAT scores and still have to reject a substantial amount of those perfect scores. Either pick something more eye popping to hinge your fate on, or hope for the best with the review.

 

[Falsedawn]

True. The best and the brighter are being let in. But the better and brighter are being rejected because of their race. And that's wrong.

Like I said, the bellcow case for allegations of racial bias in college admission had to ignore the substantially higher amount of "lesser" people of the same race who got admission over the person making the allegation.

So have fun trying to prove that in absence of any evidence. At least test scores dude had something substantial to fall back on (however important it may or may not be to Harvard's institutional goals).

 

[Scheme]

Let's be real here, the "best and brightest" aren't being rejected here. If you're a renowned classical pianist, or a physics prodigy, you're not getting rejected from schools. The real "victims" of affirmative action are the ones that couldn't cut it on their own merits and have to figure out some reason as to why they didn't make it.

You're the one that's tying the "best and brightest" to test results. If they were truly the best the world had to offer, they wouldn't be in that position. In the Fisher vs. Texas case (the bellcow case for AA detractors) everyone loves to ignore that Fisher was a marginal student and that aside from the like 8 minorities that got in ahead of her, 42 "lesser" white students also gained acceptance over her due to the holistic review process. But apparently the problem was the darkies because the white people always get left out of the recounting of that case.

So tell me, why are white people being afforded the luxury of getting into elite universities with subpar grades? All 42 of them should have been kicked to the curb in favor of Ms. Fisher, and yet they got in and she didn't. So much for that "limit and admit based on race" theory.

Whites are actually underrepresented compared to Asians at elite universities (based on average SAT acceptance score):

(from http://www.todayscience.org/IER/article/ier.v2i2p01.pdf)

Also, this lumps Jewish people with whites. If you take that away, regular white people in America are WAY underrepresented.

There are plenty of factors which it's pretty easy to see that whites (especially non-Jewish whites) and Asians are very underrepresented based on their academic performance.

Another reason why non-Jewish whites get fucked, they win most of the prizes in Math Olympiads, Physics Olympiads, etc. but have are still disproportionately represented in the average population:

 

[oldshadow]

Uh yeah, and their arguments are literally the same as Fisher. They feel that someone else got in above them because of race when they felt they were the better candidate.

Cool, you have a perfect SAT score, Harvard literally could fill a class with perfect SAT scores and still have to reject a substantial amount of those perfect scores. Either pick something more eye popping to hinge your fate on, or hope for the best with the review.

Yes they could and they should be the first ones in. You then separate them by other things.

So until you seat all the highest scores you don't seat the lower ones.

 

[Falsedawn]

Whites are actually underrepresented compared to Asians at elite universities:

(from http://www.todayscience.org/IER/article/ier.v2i2p01.pdf)

Also, this lumps Jewish people with whites. If you take that away, regular white people in America are WAY underrepresented.

There are plenty of factors which it's pretty easy to see that whites (especially non-Jewish whites) and Asians are very underrepresented based on their academic performance.

So you'd be cool with cutting back on the number of whites admitted to accomodate the necessary representation of Asians yeah?

Because what you're insinuating to me is that due to their overachievememt, Harvard has a right to exclude all others in favor of the "best and brightest" thus being Asians. Top to bottom, admission class full of Asians. No whites allowed.

Something tells me you'd object to that, which means that you'd agree that we should take class demographics into account to best serve the needs of the university. We want to include white people after all, no?

 

[Scheme]

So you'd be cool with cutting back on the number of whites admitted to accomodate the necessary representation of Asians yeah?

Because what you're insinuating to me is that due to their overachievememt, Harvard has a right to exclude all others in favor of the "best and brightest" thus being Asians. Top to bottom, admission class full of Asians. No whites allowed.

Something tells me you'd object to that, which means that you'd agree that we should take class demographics into account to best serve the needs of the university. We want to include white people after all, no?

You seem to think that whites are still overrepresented compared to Asians. Maybe Jewish whites (which are so disproportionately represented that it's insane). But if you cut them out then non-Jewish whites may be even more underrepresented. I think the distinction is important since Jewish whites often are way more nepotistic to people within their own religion.

 

[Falsedawn]

Yes they could and they should be the first ones in. You then separate them by other things.

So until you seat all the highest scores you don't seat the lower ones.

Hi, TEST SCORES ARE NOT THE END ALL BE ALL IN COLLEGE ADMISSIONS.

Literally the first point I made. Until you understand that, this discussion will inevitably elude you.

Academia is about the quest for knowledge and the furtherance of our understanding of that knowledge. A test isn't going to tell you about a person's aptitude aside from the ability to memorize information and use it on a multiple choice test.

This ain't China, our universities are the best in the world for a reason.

 

[Falsedawn]

You seem to think that whites are still overrepresented compared to Asians. Maybe Jewish whites (which are so disproportionately represented that it's insane). But if you cut them out then non-Jewish whites may be even more underrepresented. I think the distinction is important since Jewish whites often are way more nepotistic to people within their own religion.

No, i think that Asians are underrepresented. They're consistently the highest performers, so they should consistently get all the spots. We can't hold a spot open for a white man when there's a high achieving Asian that deserves that spot. So Harvard, top scores, all Asian. Princeton, same thing. Yale, maybe a couple white people get in. Maybe you guys can fill Penn or Brown once we're done accomodating the high achievers.

 

[Scheme]

No, i think that Asians are underrepresented. They're consistently the highest performers, so they should consistently get all the spots. We can't hold a spot open for a white man when there's a high achieving Asian that deserves that spot. So Harvard, top scores, all Asian. Princeton, same thing. Yale, maybe a couple white people get in. Maybe you guys can fill Penn or Brown once we're done accomodating the high achievers.

I mean you can simply take a look at the chart and see that even among elite admissions, non-Jewish whites are the worst of all races by a long shot.

What I'm saying is if you did have a purely academic based admission, non-Jewish whites and Asians would both get more spots at these universities. You realize that these groups can be underrepresented at the same time. With an argument to be made that non-Jewish whites are more underrepresented than Asians.

 

[Falsedawn]

I mean you can simply take a look at the chart and see that even among elite admissions, non-Jewish whites are the worst of all races by a long shot.

What I'm saying is if you did have a purely academic based admission, non-Jewish whites and Asians would both get more spots at these universities. You realize that these groups can be underrepresented at the same time. With an argument to be made that non-Jewish whites are more underrepresented than Asians.

Yeah, but the highest of high achievers are Asian. So by the Great American Law of Meritocracy, there's just not a spot for you at Harvard while so many Asian individuals are crushing their test scores and playing the piano. It's a meritocracy, representation doesn't mean shit. If you want a meritocracy, then you want a meritocracy. We're not talking about a meritocracy where we also hold some spots open for white people because they're "underrepresented". Hah, where's the merit in that?

 

[Scheme]

Yeah, but the highest of high achievers are Asian. So by the Great American Law of Meritocracy, there's just not a spot for you at Harvard while so many Asian individuals are crushing their test scores and playing the piano. It's a meritocracy, representation doesn't mean shit. If you want a meritocracy, then you want a meritocracy. We're not talking about a meritocracy where we also hold some spots open for white people because they're "underrepresented". Hah, where's the merit in that?

Why do you think that only Asians will be at the top? You realize that there are plenty of other people at the top, it's just that there are generally more Asians there than others.

Universities wouldn't look like only Asian, it would look like a mix that had more Asians than other races.

 

[panamaican]

So shouldn't the goal be to have as few c students as possible by taken the best and brightest.

Hardly. You don't want the kids who are great in the classroom. You want the kids who will be great in the real world. Sometimes they're the same kids, sometimes they're not.

 

[Falsedawn]

Why do you think that only Asians will be at the top? You realize that there are plenty of other people at the top, it's just that there are generally more Asians there than others.

Universities wouldn't look like only Asian, it would look like a mix that had more Asians than other races.

Elite universities, Harvard in particular. Harvard admits 4% of all students that apply, and when everyone has perfect scores, you gotta look at the extracurriculars. White people might luck into a spot here or there, but look at those achievement numbers. Frankly, there's just not a spot for you guys at the top of this meritocracy.

 

[Lvnvmma]

No, i think that Asians are underrepresented. They're consistently the highest performers, so they should consistently get all the spots. We can't hold a spot open for a white man when there's a high achieving Asian that deserves that spot. So Harvard, top scores, all Asian. Princeton, same thing. Yale, maybe a couple white people get in. Maybe you guys can fill Penn or Brown once we're done accomodating the high achievers.

I'm white and I don't mind. Whoever works the hardest deserves the prize. The Asian kids at my high school 25 years ago SACRIFICED their teenage years to get into college. While everyone else was partying, getting drunk, getting laid, fucking around, they were at home studying. They deserve what they worked hard for.

 

[panamaican]

Elite universities, Harvard in particular. Harvard admits 4% of all students that apply, and when everyone has perfect scores, you gotta look at the extracurriculars. White people might luck into a spot here or there, but look at those achievement numbers. Frankly, there's just not a spot for you guys at the top of this meritocracy.

They simply keep overlooking what the information has shown. It is not minority students who are taking smart Asian seats. It's legacies, children of donors and athletes. The SAT scores of the athletes and legacies are lower than even the black and Hispanic students. The same with the donors.

Athletes with decent scores have an 83% admission rate. This is a school with a 4% overall admission rate. People should think about that for moment. All those bright hard studying academics are getting in at a 4% clip. Play a sport and you have a 20x better chance of getting into the school.

Harvard reserves 196 seats out of their 2040 seats for kids from 19 specific private schools. That's 10% of their class coming from 19 schools. That means that if you attend one of these 19 schools with ~100 graduates a year, you're competing for 10% of Harvard's seats against less than 2000 other kids (basically a 10% shot at admission). Meanwhile, the other 38000 applicants are competing for 1900 seats.

Well, if you go to the right prep school, it looks like you don't need to be the best of 40000 kids, just the best of the kids at 19 schools.

This people dreaming of some world where Harvard doesn't admit subpar blacks and hispanics don't realize that Harvard is not going to fill those spaces with academics. Harvard will seek more of the people who make money for the school and more of the same elite group of families that they've always selected.

But the simple minded don't care about the reality of what's happening there, they reached their conclusion prior to the trial.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Uh yeah, and their arguments are literally the same as Fisher. They feel that someone else got in above them because of race when they felt they were the better candidate.

Cool, you have a perfect SAT score, Harvard literally could fill a class with perfect SAT scores and still have to reject a substantial amount of those perfect scores. Either pick something more eye popping to hinge your fate on, or hope for the best with the review.

Did you read any of the reports on this? It looks really bad.

Ten, twenty years ago, Harvard would push the line that SAT scores were great, but Chinese students didn't have enough extra-curricular activities, etc. Now the students being rejected not only have higher SAT scores, but as many or more extra curricular activities as students being accepted over them.

So Harvard's new justification is attitude and personality. Are Asians outgoing enough? Are they likable? Well, in entrance interviews typically conducted with Harvard upperclassmen or alumni, Asians are rated just as high as any other race in terms of personality, but their personality scores are systematically lowered by enrollment employees who did not interview them. Harvard consistently rates Asians lower on personality scores than other races, despite the fact that the interviews these scores are based on don't justify it.

Crazy how the people who see anti-black discrimination everywhere cannot correctly identify blatant racial discrimination right in front of their eyes, and/or defend it. Does it bother you that Asians deserve to go to Ivy league schools more than other races?