The War On Asian-American Students' Success: Harvard Affirmative Action Lawsuit Goes To Trial

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Arkain2K, Oct 12, 2015.

  1. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Messages:
    7,592
    Likes Received:
    940
    Location:
    The City of Angels

    It's really really simple when it comes to colleges particularly Ivy league schools.

    I'm not defending these policies so don't freak out at me personally but it's very easily explained.

    1) Affirmative Action.

    2) Supply and demand.

    Many top schools have had disproportionately large Asian student populations compared to population demographics in their state for a few decades now.

    For example a school like John's Hopkins that brags about its diversity is ~20% Asian in student body and ~ 42% white. Black students are ~ 7.2% of the student body.

    Look at Baltimore city. 63.2% black. 28.1% white. 2.4% Asian.
    And yeah, Baltimore is Baltimore and people are coming from all over the world to John's Hopkins.

    But the whole point of affirmative action policies is to provide some balance in order to accept more students that were working through systemic disadvantages in k-12.


    Without quotas limiting immigrant applicants and applicants from oversupplied demographics they would quickly end up with a school that's half asian and half white with zero minorities.


    Face it, whether you're asian american or white if you grew up with parents who both had college degrees and paid for private music lessons and tutors and groomed your college resume from middle school on........... you were privileged as fuck.

    So quit crying if a latino student or a black student was able to get accepted into an Ivy League school a bit more easily because their application looked more impressive given a lack of privilege and opportunity in their past.




    This argument against affirmative action isn't new. It's the exact same argument angry white people with complaining about circa 1996.
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Green Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,415
    Likes Received:
    410
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Asians will just leave. They don't have to take this PC, drag everyone down "diversity". China's about to get a lot of good American educated citizens.
     
  3. kickboxjh

    kickboxjh Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,292
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    Asians have been too busy laughing at white PC culture they didn't see it sneaking up to bite them in the ass.
     
    uppercutbus likes this.
  4. waiguoren

    waiguoren Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    11,015
    Likes Received:
    7,326
    Clearly, you have never lived in China.
     
    uppercutbus and salamander like this.
  5. Black Helicopters

    Black Helicopters Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card Yellow Card Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,447
    Likes Received:
    2,020
    It’s probably the only place where the rich leave the country in droves without the government stealing their wealth.

    It’s just that corrupt, polluted, and authoritarian
     
    salamander and OCGSC like this.
  6. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    25,046
    Likes Received:
    14,978
    Location:
    Orange County, California.
    You're barking up the wrong tree.

    The so-called "priviledged" Asian-American high school kids in New York that this topic was made for came from the very same poor immigrants background and live in the poor neighborhoods just like other poor minority kids. We have been through this, or did you somehow missed the entire discussion here?

    This is why virtually everyone in this debate would favors a socioeconomic-based program to help out ALL disadvantaged kids, not racist programs that make false assumptions about entire races and put them in neat little boxes the way you do, especially when your "rich and priviledged" Asian box is made up of wildly-different people from different countries, much of which are dirt-poor.

    There is one thing that separate the Asian-American families from the others though: the cultural emphasis on hardwork and education that they instilled into their children at an early age, though I'm not sure if you'd consider Cultural Values a "priviledge" as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
  7. S Class

    S Class Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,524
    Likes Received:
    7,982
    I agree with this entire post. Why punish Asians for studying hard and excelling in academics? It's very unfair and RACIST. Boom.
     
    LogicalInsanity likes this.
  8. S Class

    S Class Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,524
    Likes Received:
    7,982
    Heck, many Asian families came from 3rd world countries that would make any US ghetto look decent. They know how hard it was back home so they work their asses off when they get to the US so they can improve their lives.
     
    Arkain2K likes this.
  9. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Messages:
    7,592
    Likes Received:
    940
    Location:
    The City of Angels
    But in the incidence of Hopkins and the statistics provided, those Asian American young adults are accepted to and attending Johns Hopkins at more than double the rate of African American and Latino students COMBINED.

    So, again, supply and demand.



    This is literally the same argument white americans made against affirmative action in the 90s, but rehashed and delivered by asian american speakers.

    I understand the system isn't perfect and has room for improvement but I also understand why it's in place.





    Also on the diversity front.... yeah Asia is extremely diverse. So is Central America. So is South America. So is Africa. If you're offended that East Asians are lumped together in a demographic are you offended that people of Central American or South American descent are lumped together as Latino even though come from ethnically and demographically diverse regions?

    Don't be selfish about your outrage.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
  10. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    NYC
    Asians in NYC are the poorest minority group (more than black and Latino families) and have the highest rates of being under the poverty line.
    And most of the parents do not have college degrees. They don't even speak English well.

    How in the hell is that "privileged?"
    The truth is, the Asian students are studying and working much harder - simple as that.
    https://nextshark.com/asian-americans-poorest-minority-group-new-york-city/
     
  11. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Messages:
    7,592
    Likes Received:
    940
    Location:
    The City of Angels
    Your reading comprehension sucks.

    You didn't even read what you quoted. There's a conditional statement and you ignored the entire thing.
     
  12. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    NYC
    You implied Asian students are privy to music lessons and have educated parents.

    I'm pointing out that is not the case in most instances. WTF is so hard to understand about that.

     
  13. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Messages:
    7,592
    Likes Received:
    940
    Location:
    The City of Angels
    There was no implication. You falsely inferred that. That was your imagination, not my words. Read it again slowly. I described an extremely common background for young adults applying for ivy league schools. I've only been talking about ivy league colleges in this thread, Johns Hopkins as a specific example.

    Take my words at face value. WTF is so had to understand about that?
     
  14. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    25,046
    Likes Received:
    14,978
    Location:
    Orange County, California.
    Brooklyn president turns on school testing plan after Asian-American donors backlash
    By Yoav Gonen | June 18, 2018

    [​IMG]

    Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams quietly reversed his support for eliminating the Specialized High Schools Admissions Test after Chinese-American donors pulled out of upcoming fundraisers, The Post has learned.

    Two sources told The Post that a June 21 fundraiser planned with Chinese hotel workers in Manhattan was canceled, while other donors from the Chinese community had begun backing out of a separate event.

    Adams has been fundraising hard this year for an expected mayoral run in 2021.

    “Nothing [moves] faster than when it hits your wallet,” a leader in the Brooklyn Chinese community said of Adams’ change of heart.

    The Brooklyn BP was among the first public officials to back Mayor Bill de Blasio’s bid to eliminate the entrance exams, which for years have yielded relatively few black and Hispanic students at the city’s top eight public high schools.

    “For years we tried to get rid of this darn test and we’re finally getting rid of this test!” Adams said at the mayor’s press conference on June 3 announcing state legislation to phase out the exam over three years.

    But in the face of a severe backlash, Adams organized an emergency meeting with the Asian community just three days later — where he softened his stance that the exam had to go.

    Asian students have fared well on the single-exam admissions into the city’s elite high schools, and the Asian community has been vocal in denouncing de Blasio’s plan.

    Soon after the community meeting, Adams told select Chinese media that he’s now backing multiple entrance criteria — while keeping the exam — and called for creating one additional specialized high school per borough.

    “My goal is not to disappoint friends. The Chinese community and my office, we have cooperated together on many important items,” Adams told The Chinese Press in a video posted June 15. “It’s my goal to let the Chinese community know that I hear you.”

    https://nypost.com/2018/06/18/brooklyn-president-turns-on-school-testing-plan-after-donor-backlash/
     
    AznTrojan and Jackie Blue like this.
  15. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    NYC
    I am taking your words at face value. I'm saying young Asian students applying for Ivy Leagues do not commonly have parents that have college degrees - most of them are immigrants that can't speak English fluently.
     
    Jackie Blue likes this.
  16. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Messages:
    7,592
    Likes Received:
    940
    Location:
    The City of Angels


    And I'm saying from direct experience and statistics, many and perhaps most Asian students attending and graduating Ivy League schools come from very well off families ESPECIALLY those who are in the country on student visas. And the same is not untrue of white graduates of these Ivy League schools whether they are American or not. Go beyond the application data and look at who actually gets in and stays. These schools have been mostly for the wealthy since their inceptions.

    If you look at Harvard's MBA program class of 2019, ~ 1/3 of the students moved from another country to attend the school on a student visa. 14% of their MBA program is composed of students from Asia attending on F1 student visas.

    Those are not poor people.






    But classism has always been at the heart of racism in America.

    Capital crafts the racist propaganda to turn labor against each other instead of uniting for a better standard of living for everyone.

    This may part of the problem that you're not seeing. Just like wealthy Chinese families are buying up land in Vancouver and the Pacific Northwest, is it possible that wealthy immigrant students are taking up greater portions of racial demographic quotas that make it more difficult for Asian American applicants who are at a disadvantage?


    Consider this possibility.

    Consider, that it might not be racism but classism that is the boogeyman worthy of hate in this scenario.

    If poor Asian American students are having trouble breeching the Ivy Leagues inspite of substantial merit with acceptance rates similar to white students who grow up poor and have similar merits...

    What you're seeing in the Ivy Leagues might not be racism per se. It's that these Ivy League schools have always been by the rich for the rich. And while they let some brilliant young adults from poorer backgrounds in, and that is mostly merit based (but of course their other criteria because they're trying to control their diversity and craft it), current affirmative action policies do favor African American and Latino applicants of similar merit in low means. I'm having trouble finding statistics but I wouldn't disagree about the emphasis on education in many East Asian American families and it may well be possible that Harvard is getting significantly more Asian Applicants than Black and Latino applicants. To the owners of these schools, your race is no important than the demographic they want to paint. But the reality is, they turn down a ton of poor people and accept a ton of really rich people. At higher donation levels, merit needed to generate acceptance will slide downward. So the number of high merit low wealth student they accept is pretty limited, and they're trying to paint this racial tableaux, and they have a lot of Asian and white applicants but not as many black and latino applicants.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  17. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    NYC
    We are not talking about international, wealthy Asian students from places like China and Singapore. The current suit is comprised of Asian-Americans - completely different group.

    Legacy admissions are also complete bullshit IMO.

    That's the point of the lawsuit - All else being equal, Asian students still have to have better test scores and better grades than other nationalities.

    We don't need a definition of what affirmative action is. Everybody knows what it is in this thread. The point is - should race be a factor. And to what extent?

    I'm arguing the amount that race plays a role is too large. The gap in admissions qualifications is too great for race to play that much of a factor.
     
    Arkain2K likes this.
  18. lifelessheap

    lifelessheap Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    13,285
    Likes Received:
    14,713
    Racist policies are okay if the victims are white or Asian!
     
    LogicalInsanity and uppercutbus like this.
  19. Ruprecht

    Ruprecht Hands Of The Judges Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    32,191
    Likes Received:
    13,896
  20. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    25,046
    Likes Received:
    14,978
    Location:
    Orange County, California.
    Nicely done, good sir!

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page