The War On Asian-American Students' Success: Harvard Affirmative Action Lawsuit Goes To Trial

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Arkain2K, Oct 12, 2015.

  1. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    33,008
    Likes Received:
    26,775
    Also, since you seem more likely to prefer this information from an Asian source I thought I'd find the one I'd originally read. Here the author is Asian and went to Harvard, as did his sister.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/24/opinion/yang-harvard-lawsuit/index.html

    An Asian attendee who happened to learn something about his and his sister's admissions. He got in because of his intangibles, not his grades or test scores or blase extracurriculars. His younger sister got in because he was already in, not because of her merit either.

    That is the nature of college admissions, the same things that people are suggesting are discrimination against Asians is also being used in favor of Asians. I know, it's one example, but I suggest that it is emblematic of how the admission system works in most private universities.
     
  2. Darth_Inv1ctu5

    Darth_Inv1ctu5 I will shit on everything you love

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Messages:
    3,671
    Likes Received:
    4,482
    Location:
    Bat Country
    Is it just me or is this whole thing about parents hovering over their kids to do homework and shit a distinctly US thing? Other imports or foreigners, feel free to chime in on your experiences.

    I went to elementary and high school in Serbia, was a straight A's student all elementary and mostly A's with a few B's in a pretty hard high school, without parents hovering over me to get shit done all the time or helping me and shit. Sure, here and there they had to yell if I was playing Tomb Raider or Quake or Carmageddon too much but hardly something comparable to what's expected in the US. What the fuck is going on here? These kids aren't stupid, what gives?
     
  3. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    NYC
    You stereotyped Asians earlier as only having the chess club, instrument, etc as admissions criteria. And that those were not weighed as heavily.

    I replied that you were actually the one stereotyping. By saying that's all Asians have - when it's not true at all. A lot of the ones rejected from Harvard, Yale, etc had sports and other extras as well. The truth is - these crazy Asian tiger moms will force their kids to do almost anything to get into these schools. If they change the extracurricular criteria to include more sports or other stuff like volunteering - they'll make their kids do that.

    It's an undeniable fact - Asians have to score far higher than any other ethnic group (even whites) to get into the same Ivy League schools. There's an unspoken racial quota at these schools.

    You kept trying to make an excuse saying perhaps the typical Asian "extracurriculars" are not weighed as heavily. But offered no evidence that the typical Asian applicant has different extras. Basically, you yourself were stereotyping Asian students.

    When you got called out on it, you changed the goalposts of your argument by obfuscating. That's why I believed you were biased. It seems like you have an agenda to prove Asians are not hurt by affirmative action, when all hard evidence clearly points to a racial quota.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
    Lord Coke likes this.
  4. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    NYC
    The average US kid is stupid relative to other developed countries.
     
  5. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    33,008
    Likes Received:
    26,775
    No, I didn't. I said that certain activities are overrepresented relative to other activities and so weighed less. I used piano as an example - you treated it as if I said that Asians only play piano. Please don't misquote me.

    Please stop misquoting me.

    And the Asian extracurricular list is changing precisely because the parents are broadening the extracurricular list. They are moving away from the stereotypical activities pursued by most Ivy League applicants (not just Asians, all Ivy League applicants).

    Also, the person who produced the study with the test score differences openly stated that his information did not include extracurricular activities or other "soft variables". Here I'll quote it for you:

    Even the most quoted piece of data on this subject admits that it isn't presenting a full picture of the applicants, just the test scores.

    That's an opinion, not a fact. An opinion that was proven untrue at Harvard and Princeton previously. Please stop making up things.

    Actually, I explained exactly why specific extracurriculars are not weighed as heavily. And I later explained that if you go and read a broad array of websites where Asian students and/or college coaches discuss application criteria, there is a standard theme about diversifying the extracurricular list that they have on their applications.

    Now, because it appears that you don't know what quotas are and don't appear to have read very much (including my other link after the post you quoted), you think I'm stereotyping Asians. The reality is that Asian students and college coaches themselves state that these activities are overrepresented ("overrepresented" does not mean "the only ones", it means that are present at a disproportionately large number).

    I haven't changed what I said. You just don't like it because it disagrees with the narrative about blanket discrimination (based on facts about how colleges weigh admissions and that this university was cleared of this specific allegation just previously).

    Of course this lack of understanding on your part is obvious considering that you keep saying "quotas" when no one, not even the litigants alleging discrimination, are alleging "quotas" . Did you even read my other post regarding the Asian Harvard attendee and his sister? I'll requote part of it for you.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/24/opinion/yang-harvard-lawsuit/index.html
     
  6. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    NYC
    That's one person's opinion - not a "study."

    Yea that's called a legacy admissions - which I have a problem with as well.

    I'm not arguing that different extracurriculars are not weighed differently.

    I'm saying you haven't shown any proof that Asian student's extra's are vastly different from other applicants of different nationality. You're just stating that it is so.

    Nothing was "proven" untrue at Harvard and Princeton previously. You act like it's a foregone conclusion.They just won legally and had good lawyers.

    That doesn't mean it's decided once and for all. There are plenty of legal cases where the "wrong" side won. The Supreme Court once ruled black people were not American citizens. Recent decisions like Citizens United are also horrible. OJ was deemed not guilty. That doesn't make it right.

    Additionally, you only mention Harvard and Princeton and point to that as proof that there is no bias.

    But this has been going on for a while at other universities as well and PROVEN to be.

    The Justice Department found in the 80's UCLA had been discriminating against Asians in favor of white students.

    At Stanford, the Committee on Undergraduate Admissions and Financial Aid, after an exhaustive internal investigation, conceded negative action against Asian applicants

    “No factor we considered can explain completely the discrepancy in admission rates between Asian Americans and whites.” Subconscious bias by admissions officers was likely the culprit, it concluded, but the Committee “elected not to investigate the bias because ‘the analysis required would be formidable.

    A similar episode took place at Brown, where an internal committee found that “Asian American applicants have been treated unfairly in the admissions process.

    It's not "decided" like you like to portray.

    Students for Fair Admissions, which brought the lawsuit, includes Asian students. It's not only white kids.

    Well that's one thing I'm in agreement with you. I don't like legacy admissions either.

    No it's not only alleging discrimination in favor of black kids. It's in favor of black, Latino AND white kids.

    Asian applicants needed to score — on the 1600 point scale of the “old SAT” — 140 points higher than whites, 270 points higher than Hispanics, and 450 points higher than African Americans if other factors are held equal.

    Are you seriously trying to say that HUGE of a discrepancy can be explained by differences in extracurriculars?

    Say what you want about extracurriculars, but everybody knows grades and test scores are the 2 MOST important factors in college admissions.

    This exactly mirrors what happened to Jews in the earlier part of the century.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/the-ivy-leagues-history-of-discriminating-against-jews-2014-12


    And another factor - from the 70's on, Asian students admittance were growing at an exponential rate until they started changing the standards. They were gaining admittance at more and more numbers. Then they changed the standards and all of a sudden it dropped off.

    Why wouldn't the percentage of Asian students move at all? Even with increasing population numbers, differing number of applicants every year, etc. Shouldn't it naturally vary at least a little bit?

    But it has stayed at a certain percentage for years and years now after exponential growth.

    That points to an unspoken quota to me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  7. Black Helicopters

    Black Helicopters Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card Yellow Card Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,447
    Likes Received:
    2,020
    Pan is a black dude with a hot Indian wife

    You know he earned everything he has if he can pull that off.
     
    panamaican likes this.
  8. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    33,008
    Likes Received:
    26,775
    Yes, one person stating that his extracurricular choices were typical of applicants. Not Asian applicants but Harvard applicants. And it was his atypical film interest and his interview that separated him.



    Then you're not disagreeing with anything that I've actually said. You're disagreeing with a more complex point that you are struggling to grasp.

    I never said that they're vastly different from other applicants. I said that those extracurriculars are overrepresented in admissions. And so students with great test scores, regardless of nationality, but overrepresented extracurriculars will lose out compared to students with broader extracurriculars, regardless of nationality.

    Now, read slowly because this is important:

    If the claim is that Asian students are being discriminated against based solely on looking at their high test scores and average GPA's compared to other students, it is not a useful piece of information unless you also have the soft criteria, such as extracurriculars to provide context. Simply having high test scores isn't as valuable when applying to elite colleges because everyone has high test scores so the applicant (of any nationality) needs a broad range of extracurriculars.

    Read it again before you start typing. Did you? Ok....

    What I have been saying is that high Asian test scores and GPA's are worthless for this discussion because if they have the typical extracurriculars that students, of all nationalities, bring to the table then they are negating their higher test scores by not being unique enough elsewhere. And so they, just like other students with overrepresented extracurriculars will not get in despite having high test scores and GPAs.

    That is the core point that you seem to struggle with. High test scores and GPAs don't matter at the elite college level if coupled with typical extracurriculars and there's no reason to assume that the extracurriculars of Asian students diverge significantly from the standard ones presented to Ivy League schools.


    Got it, so winning legally doesn't prove anything unless it's your opinion that won? That's pretty insane. You're not looking for truth, you're looking for confirmation of an opinion. And any disagreement with your opinion, even if based in truth, is bias.

    Right. It's not decided until it agrees with you.

    As for the Stanford stuff, as I pointed out previously - it's not affirmative action that's hurting Asian students. It's negative action in favor of white students, athletes and legacies. The link that I provided, which included the Stanford information and as well as other institutions, points out that 85% of the issue is about white applicants, not other minorities ie not affirmative action. Did you grasp that part of it?





    The individual, Blum, who founded Students for Fair Admissions and sets their legal strategy is a white man who has brought multiple suits against multiple universities to challenge admissions. Who cares if they use Asian students as the front for their cases, that's basic litigation - find a sympathetic individual as the face of the case. In this case, he lost the UT case, he's litigating a different case against UNC and he has this one against Harvard.

    You should have a baseline bit of knowledge on this litigation.

    That's all well and good but if you're looking for why Asian students aren't getting in at greater rates, that's where you should actually be looking, plus donors and underqualified white applicants, instead of non-existent things like "quotas".



    I literally quoted the person who put together that data in my last post and he stated that his information is incomplete because he didn't have access to all of the soft criteria, ranging from essays, to extracurriculars, to teacher recommendations. If the person who prepared the data doesn't think it points to bias because it's incomplete, how can you quote his data but reach a different conclusion. o_O

    And that's before addressing that those test scores are from over 2 decades ago. How in the world are you using 2 decade old data to discuss discrimination in the current applicant pool? :confused:

    Seriously, step back for a second and put together the information I'm providing you.





    2 most important factors does not mean the only 2 factors. Seriously, you're like someone who understands only half of a conversation. The 95th percentile of the SAT kicks in around 1400. The top 10% is at the mid-1300's. Over half of the admittees to Princeton's freshman class have perfect SAT scores. Stop and think about that for a moment and put it into context.

    High test scores and GPA aren't special. They're not unique or even interesting when applying to elite colleges. You can take from the top 15% of the applicant pool with an SAT between 1250 and 1300. So, while applicants need to meet a baseline of scores and GPAs, once you cross that line all of the other stuff starts to matter more.

    Really? Amazing? I wonder if it corresponded with a massive uptick in Asian immigrants...

    [​IMG]

    Hmm, population uptick starting in the 1970's coupled with a leveling off in the 2000's. Seems consistent to me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  9. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    25,046
    Likes Received:
    14,978
    Location:
    Orange County, California.
    Thanks for the insightful first-hand account!

    Why do you think these people are having such a hard time to just come out and say "Dirt-poor Asian-American students in New York High Schools are doing too well because they actually study and their hard-working parents actually care about their children's future, so we want to do something to help the neglected Hispanic and Black students out", instead of keep beating around the bush?
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
  10. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    25,046
    Likes Received:
    14,978
    Location:
    Orange County, California.
    Protesters gather at City Hall to oppose de Blasio’s no-test plan
    By Gina Daidone and Bruce Golding | June 10, 2018

    [​IMG]

    About 1,000 protesters gathered outside City Hall on Sunday to oppose Mayor de Blasio’s plan to diversify the city’s elite high schools by scrapping the admission test.

    The predominantly Asian crowd held professionally printed signs with sayings that included “THE TEST IS NOT THE PROBLEM”and “SUPPORT DIVERSITY, FAIRNESS AND MERIT.”

    One man also held a homemade placard bearing images of de Blasio and schools Chancellor Richard Carranaza, along with the hand-written words “DUMB & DUMBER!!”

    City Councilman Peter Koo (D-Flushing) told the group that de Blasio was trying to “politicize education,” which he said “has no color.”

    Koo also blasted the Department of Education for graduating some kids from high school who “can’t do multiplication, can’t spell.”

    “We want to tell the mayor that he has to do a basic thing — take responsibility!” he fumed.

    “Mr. Mayor, take your responsibility! Take your responsibility!”

    Rally organizer John Chan, president of the Coalition of Asian-Americans for Civil Rights, called de Blasio’s proposal “an insult to immigrant communities” and “our kids who work hard.”

    Asian-American kids make up the bulk of the students in the city’s eight “specialized” high schools, where admission is based on scores from a single test with 57 questions each on math and English.

    De Blasio wants to phase out the state-mandated test over three years and instead fill the schools with the top 7 percent of seventh-graders from each of the city’s middle schools.

    The proposal requires a change in state law, and the Assembly’s Education Committee last week narrowly passed enabling legislation.

    Speaker Carl Heastie (D-The Bronx) — who graduated from Brooklyn Tech, one of the schools in question — later said there wouldn’t be any further action on the bill before the legislature recesses for the summer on June 20.

    https://nypost.com/2018/06/10/protesters-gather-at-city-hall-to-oppose-de-blasios-no-test-plan/
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
    waiguoren likes this.
  11. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    NYC
    He mentioned his sister who got in because he went to the same school - that's legacy - not merit based.

    You say these schools factor in extracurriculars differently. NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT.

    You made the implication that because the schools weigh extras differently, that is the reason for the Asian students disparity and difference in test scores.

    You made reference to this several times - so don't try to walk back from that.

    I asked you to show me proof that Asian extracurriculars are typically different than the other applicants.

    Now you are saying regardless of nationaliy and that they don't have different extracurriculars?

    So if there is no significant difference in extracurriculars, why do Asian students need to score much higher on their test scores over white, black AND Latino students.

    No one claimed that Asian students are discriminated against SOLELY by looking at their test scores. That's a strawman.

    The argument is that a 140 points differential for whites, 270 for Hispanics, and a WHOPPING 450 points for African-Americans cannot be explained by a difference in intangibles and extracurrculars.

    Are you honestly trying to say extracurrculars count that much? That there is that much of an intangibles and extracurricular disparity between black and Asian students that it accounts for a 450 difference in SAT score?

    Keep in mind, the Supreme Court had ruled previously that universities can consider race as a criteria in admissions.

    I don't struggle with what you are saying at all. Stop being condescending. You're not speaking Arabic. I just don't agree with it.

    I'm saying any intangibles and extras these students have doesn't account for the - 140 points differential for whites, 270 for Hispanics, and 450 points for African-Americans - difference in test scores you need for applicants.

    This Stanford study was in the 80's. Things have changed since then. I just pointed it out to show these schools have had a history of discrimination.

    It's irrelevant whether it was in favor of whites or blacks or whomever. It's still discrimination.

    Because the suit was brought on by a white man, that invalidates the case for the Asians that are part of the case?

    We should judge the validity of a case based on it's merits. Not how many times it was challenged in court. Who cares? That's irrelevant.

    Higher test scores aren't special. Well extracurriculars like sports aren't that special either.

    I'm saying a 450 point differential (and this is with the 1600 SAT test in mind) between black and Asian students is TOO LARGE a difference that race was NOT a factor.

    I ask again: Are extracurriculars and some vague "intangibles" worth a 450 difference for black students, 270 for Hispanics and 140 for white students?

    And again I reiterate - race was deemed a legit factor universities can consider by the Supreme Court already.

    C'mon now - I know you are intelligent. I feel like you are being deliberately obtuse just to downplay the race factor.

    What the hell are you talking about?

    The Asian US population grew 72% from 2000-2015. And it's growing even more as we speak.

    Now you're straight up lying.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/08/key-facts-about-asian-americans/
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
    S Class and Greoric like this.
  12. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    NYC
    Pan - American - You stated multiple times Harvard does not enforce racial quotas.

    Harvard's president just DEFENDED discrimination against Asians in a letter to alumni a few days so.

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/06/harvard-begs-to-discriminate.php

    Saying that - I recognize legacy admissions is more important to these universities than diversity - all the monetary donations they receive is contingent on that. However, the Asian students are still collateral damage and it definitely favors students of other ethnicities.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
    S Class likes this.
  13. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    33,008
    Likes Received:
    26,775
    That's not what she said. Which is probably why you linked to a biased analysis of her statements instead of to the strict words themselves. She stated that Harvard wants and will continue to seek a diverse student body. Only a biased individual would interpret that as a defense of discrimination against Asians.

    for anyone who wants to read the actual language without biased opinions (which powerline seems incapable of doing in any of their stories): https://www.harvard.edu/president/news/2018/defending-diversity

    Also, her specific statement regarding Asians within that speech is:
    She's pretty clearly stating that the allegations of discrimination are unfounded.

    Now if you want actual information as opposed to predetermined drivel, see my next post.
     
  14. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    33,008
    Likes Received:
    26,775
    The expert briefs on the matter. They are long. Both close to 200 pages but worth reading for people with an interest in understanding the factors in play. Of course, anytime this much information is presented to people with predetermined opinions, it's more likely that they'll selectively read and selectively ignore based on those preexisting biases.

    Plaintiff's: http://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpe...18/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf
    Defendants: https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/fil...ert_report_updated_confid_desigs_redacted.pdf
     
    GOATER likes this.
  15. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    NYC
    Well those statements are a matter if subjective interpretation aren't they?

    You still didn't answer my question.

    Are extracurriculars and some vague "intangibles" worth a 450 difference for black students, 270 for Hispanics and 140 for white students?

    Secondly, why are you lying and saying the US Asian population plateaued in year 2000, when the complete opposite happened and it rose exponentially (and continue to rise?)

    It seems like you are looking for any or all evidence to downplay the race factor in these school admissions - instead of looking at the data objectively. I think you are biased.
     
  16. Greoric

    Greoric Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    14,919
    Likes Received:
    6,404
    <[analyzed}><{anton}><{you!}>
     
  17. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    33,008
    Likes Received:
    26,775
    No, the statements are not a matter of subjective interpretation. That's asinine. She says something and any random person's subjective interpretation is allowable? Only in some strange world where people's intent for their own language is irrelevant.

    As for you question - I answered it multiple times and in far greater depth that you seem willing to grasp. It's surprising that you claim Stuyvesant, my dad went there, my cousin went there - they wouldn't make these poor logical arguments that you're hanging on to.

    Once again:

    1) The test score data on which you are relying is decades old. The admissions rates on which the discrimination is alleged is fairly recent. You cannot use outdated data to analyze the current admissions decisions.

    2) The author of the data states that the data does not show any bias because he did not have access to any other data related to admissions decisions. That includes college essays, teacher recommendations, athletics, extracurricular activities, legacies, etc. So as far as what things are worth, it's idiotic to make any assumptions as to their values.

    3) No one said the Asian population plateaued in 2000. That is yet another example of not understanding what you are reading. There was a rapid uptick in population growth starting in the 70's and then that uptick started leveling off in the 2000's. I even provided a fucking graph, lol. I know that I'm arguing with someone who is struggling with the finer points of this subject when you can't even read the graph properly.

    Now for more information: Harvard's admission decisions are based on 4 different criteria - Academic, Athletic, Extracurricular, Personal. A student needs high performance in 3 of the 4 to have a very good shot at admission.

    For even more data. From the Defendants expert:
    As I stated previously, academic excellence is not exceptional. In order for Harvard to field a class of broad abilities, it's going to lean heavily on non-academic criteria, which I listed above. So, many elite academic students will not gain admission because they are not exceptional in the the majority of the other 3 categories.
     
  18. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    4,521
    Likes Received:
    778
    Location:
    NYC
    What the hell? YOU said the Asian-American population plateaued in the 2000's.

    When in fact, Asian-Americans are the fastest growing population group in the US. It grew from from 11.9 million to 20.4 million from 2010-2015 - a 72% change. How is that a "leveling off?" Stop lying.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-...ns-growing-faster-any-other-group-u-s-n141991

    So I read some of these documents.

    They all confirm Asian-American applicants score significantly higher than white, Latino and black students on test scores AND also score higher on the extracurricular score (according to Harvard's rating scale.)

    YOUR SOURCE

    "In the baseline dataset, 58.6% of Asian-American applicants receive a 1 or 2, compared to 44.7% of whites, 14.7% of Hispanics, and 7.3% of African Americans. Asian-American applicants likewise have very strong Extracurricular Ratings, again ranking higher on average than any of the other three groups"

    First you implied than the gap in Asian students is due to extracurriculars - that different extras are weighed differently.

    I asked you to show any proof that Asian-Americans have significantly different extras than other nationalities.

    THEN, you claimed they don't have different extracurriculars. Which is it? You contradicted yourself.


    I don't understand what you are claiming - that race is not a factor in Ivy League admissions?

    That the only difference in admittance rates is due to intangibles and extras? Is that what your position is?

    Because it is pretty plain (at least to me) that race IS an obvious factor in admission rates (in the name of diversity.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    uppercutbus and S Class like this.
  19. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    25,046
    Likes Received:
    14,978
    Location:
    Orange County, California.
    Assemblyman Ron Kim: De Blasio’s ‘desegregation’ plan is an insult to Asian-Americans
    June 13, 2018

    [​IMG]

    Mayor Bill de Blasio has had four and a half years to improve our segregated public-school system — to fix its systemic failures from kindergarten through eighth grade.

    Yet our schools continue to be deeply divided based on race, income and achievement. Instead of addressing this, however, the mayor and chancellor decided to look for a convenient culprit. They have chosen to scapegoat the Specialized High School Admissions Test for New York’s eight specialized high schools, as if to insinuate that it alone is the problem and reason for the widespread segregation in the city’s public schools.

    Asian-American students take the SHSAT in large numbers, and many of them get admitted to the specialized high schools. They, too, hail from immigrant and low-income families. Despite public perception, nearly one out of every four Asian-Americans in New York lives in poverty, and for years they have had the highest rate of poverty among all ethnic groups in the city.

    They see the admissions test as their one fair shot at success — the chance to obtain, based on merit alone, a first-rate education. For them and their parents, getting a spot in one of these schools changes everything, opens up entire worlds of possibilities and future paths they might never have had. It justifies the long hours of toil and grueling effort as their families struggle to eke out an existence in a city with historic levels of income inequality.

    The mayor’s sudden announcement and hasty rollout of his plan came during the last few weeks of this year’s legislative session, when other major agenda items had passed and potentially thorny political complications were out of the way. It was executed without any dialogue with or inclusion from our communities or other key stakeholders — even though my local colleagues and I brought up this very topic when we recently met with new Chancellor Richard Carranza.

    The plan would wrongly pit Asian-American families against black and Latino communities to the detriment of all. Through their words and actions, the mayor and chancellor have made “Asians” Public Enemy No. 1 — as if we are somehow the ones guilty of segregation. In fact, we are the fastest growing group in New York City — and we are also immigrants, people of color and minorities.

    We didn’t create this test or this admission process, and Asian-American kids weren’t handed these seats at these schools. They earned them through hard work and sacrifice. But for officials like de Blasio and Carranza, Asian-Americans are seen as either foreigners or a privileged class that somehow “owns the admissions test” to these top high schools.

    If the goal is to truly achieve racial equity through education, the mayor should propose eliminating all specialized schools, decentralizing our school systems, providing equitable funding to all neighborhoods and building top-notch high schools in every neighborhood.

    Of course, this is much harder and requires the full cooperation of state lawmakers like Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who is clearly not very fond of the mayor’s tactics and politics.

    When Cuomo called on our schools to be more transparent and accountable in how they spend their funds so that we can better understand the origin of inequities in our public schools, de Blasio scoffed at the very notion and found it insulting. But how can we start fixing our segregated and broken system when we don’t even know how it got that way in the first place?

    Suddenly moving the goalposts for these eight schools is not even close to an adequate solution for the plight of our city’s 1.1 million students. Instead of addressing systemic inequities from the bottom up, the mayor and chancellor have chosen symbolism over substance. They have decided to start unnecessary racial conflict to distract the public from the city’s failures to improve things by vilifying an entire group of minorities for their hard work and success.



    Assemblyman Ron Kim, a Democrat, represents New York’s 40th District.

    https://nypost.com/2018/06/13/de-bl...lan-is-a-slap-in-the-face-of-asian-americans/
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
  20. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    25,046
    Likes Received:
    14,978
    Location:
    Orange County, California.
    Asian-American Protesters rip de Blasio’s proposed admissions overhaul
    By Selim Algar | June 15, 2018

    [​IMG]

    More than 100 protesters descended on City Hall on Friday to blast Mayor de Blasio’s proposed overhaul of the city’s specialized-high-schools’ admission policies.

    De Blasio and schools Chancellor Richard Carranza want to abolish the single-test admissions structure to spur diversification, noting the chronic lack of black and Latino kids at the competitive schools.

    Carranza has asserted that multiple measures, including overall grades and state-test results, should be considered for admissions and that a lone exam can’t adequately evaluate talent and potential.

    Both he and the mayor argue that students who can’t afford admissions-test prep classes are unfairly elbowed out of realistic contention.

    But the protesters — most of them Asian — said the proposed changes would penalize kids and parents who have been preparing for the past several years for the admissions-exam-only system.
    Asian kids — many of them low-income first-generation students from places like China and Bangladesh — dominate the elite institutions.

    “Getting rid of the [entrance-exam system] is an easy way out for politicians instead of improving middle schools across the board,” said Caroline Magoc, 15, a sophomore at one of the “elite eight,” Stuyvesant HS, and vice president of her school’s Democratic Club.

    She argued that de Blasio is willing to implement a policy that mistreats Asians because of their limited political potency.

    “We are not elitists,” she said. “We want everyone who can get into these schools to work hard and get in and put in the effort.”

    State Sen. Martin Golden (R-Brooklyn), who was at the rally, also accused de Blasio of taking from one community and giving to another for political gain.

    “Stop pitting our diverse communities against each other,” he said. “It’s plain wrong.”

    Golden said the city’s middle schools should be yielding better results, especially given New York’s sky-high education spending.

    “No other state in the country — no other place in the world — do we spend that type of money,” he said. “And we’re looking to dumb down education?”

    Another protester, Don Lee, said high-achieving Asians should not pay the price for the city Department of Education’s shortcomings.

    “We are not saying these kids are not smart enough,” he said of black and Latino applicants. “We’re saying the DOE has failed them.”

    https://nypost.com/2018/06/15/protesters-rip-de-blasios-proposed-admissions-overhaul/
     

Share This Page