The War On Asian-American Students' Academic Success: New York to get rid of elite High School test

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Arkain2K, Oct 12, 2015.

  1. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

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    You're changing the goalposts of your argument now.

    You making the implication that all the Asian students have the same extracurriculars and these Ivy Leagues value different ones. And basically implying Asians aren't getting in, not because of discrimination - but because the schools weigh various extracurriculars differently.

    Well my point is - a lot of these Asian students have a varying range of extracurriculars - not just the stereotypical classical instrument - yet STILL have to score higher than the other racial groups with ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL.

    That is discrimination based on race. Because that is the only other factor that is considered.

    I scored a 1340 and I don't consider myself an "elite brain." There is a big difference from someone who scores 1550 to 1300. I personally know people from my HS who scored 1500 and above. They worked much harder than me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  2. Goonerview

    Goonerview Gold Belt

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    Ok, and herein lies the problem with your reasoning.

    AA by its very nature IS discrimination based on race.

    You support a system that is discriminatory to its core and then complain that it's discriminatory.

    If you don't like AA, why don't you have the balls to just admit it?
     
  3. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

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    Fuck are you talking about? I just said AA is discriminatory and unfair. Learn how to read.

    And as previously stated, most Asians still support Affirmative Action despite it hurting them.

    I think AA is trying to address a legitimate social need - helping those that are disadvantaged. So we should come up with some different way of helping - perhaps free prep classes for disadvantaged kids during summers, etc.
     
  4. PoundForPound

    PoundForPound Green Belt

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    Belive it or not, there are white hispanics--ever heard of Canelo? The list could go on.

    Also, you're as ignorant as to assume a name such as Safraz KHAN to be Hispanic. He's obviously of middle eastern descent, most likely Pakistani.
     
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  5. Goonerview

    Goonerview Gold Belt

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    Let me spell out your logic for you:

    AA is discriminatory and unfair.

    I support AA.

    But, AA is discriminatory and unfair.

    But, I support AA.

    Why don't you call AA for what it is and not support it? Or are you afraid of being called racist?
     
  6. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

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    I didn't say I supported AA. I said most Asians still support it. Again - learn how to read.

    And I'm Asian retard. You're saying I'm racist against myself?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  7. superpunch

    superpunch Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    edit: politics
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  8. Goonerview

    Goonerview Gold Belt

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    You were justifying its existence by claims by it was doing something virtuous.

    So you are against AA?
     
  9. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

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    How many times do I have to type out the same thing? I think AA is discriminatory and unfair as it is presently utilized.

    However, it is trying to address a legitimate social need. So we should think of alternatives.

    Learn to read and stop bothering me.
     
  10. panamaican

    panamaican Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I was reading something about educating the elite and I think it's relevant to this discussion.

    The foundation:
    Now the relevant question:
    And the insightful answer:

    It's illustrative of just how uninformed most of us are about what drives these admissions decisions. While people are focusing on the academic standards, the elite colleges are looking for a baseline of academics and then elite performance in other ventures.

    I'm going to add an entire separate post about how the college counselors at high schools actually shape which kids are getting accepted and rejected from the elite colleges based on criteria that we're not actively talking about.

    Probably the biggest take away I've gotten from my recent reading is the extent to which elite high schools play a larger role in shaping who eventually rises to positions of wealth and power within this nation. While people are discussing getting into elite colleges re: future outcomes, the prep schools are wielding outsized influence on those outcomes.

    For example - 90% of high school kids attend public schools, yet 40% of elite college attendees come from private schools. 10% of the high school community is providing 4x the representation at elite colleges. Moreover, some of these prep schools are sending 25%+ of their students to those schools. Yet these kids are not outperforming the public school kids at the collegiate level (they do eventually make more money than them though).

    Anyway, the whole thing is fascinating and more and more supportive of the idea that while Asian Americans might not be getting into elite colleges at a rate commensurate with their academic output - it's probably not because of discrimination against them or Affirmative Action. It's because academic output isn't as valuable in the admissions decisions as college applicants are led to believe
     
  11. Hog-train

    Hog-train Brown Belt

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    This is the same exact vague reasoning used against Jews when they started disproportionately getting into Ivy Leagues back in the earlier part of the century.

    Before the Jews, it was all about academic performance. But when they started replacing the WASPS, all of a sudden they started taking a more "holistic" approach to admissions.

    It's a bullshit excuse.

    It seems you are "choosing" to believe the university's story because you WANT to believe it. Instead of objectively looking at the quantifiable evidence.

    You say there is no racial quota. Ok then how come the percentage of Asian admission's has been stagnant at a certain percentage for years? When they first started getting in, they were increasingly becoming a larger percentage of the elite school population.

    Then all of a sudden it was capped at a certain percentage. The same percentage for years. That is a racial quota.

    All the quantifiable and verifiable data points toward a racial quota. And arbitrary racial quotas = discrimination.

    And keep in mind, the universities have a HUGE financial incentive to have a "holistic" approach. All the legacy admissions - rich daddy makes a huge donation and their kid gets in.

    But I'm a believer in letting the cream rise to the top.

    You think all the top academically performing countries in the world like Asia lets less talented kids get in? Hell no.

    In South Korea, if you want to get into a top university, it doesn't matter if you come from a rich family. You still have to do well in the entrance exams.
     
  12. MicroBrew

    MicroBrew Steel Belt

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    It's isn't discrimination based solely on race. Race is just 1 factor.

    Folks typically focus on the racial aspect of AA, and especially associate AA with Blacks.

    - Going by raw numbers, more Whites get AA than Blacks and Native Americans combined.

    - Women get AA. And as such White women are the majority of AA recipients. Some White guys even have their business under a female family member, to make use of AA.

    - Hispanics get AA. There are more Hispanics in the US than Blacks. A large % of Hispanics are White or self-identify as White. Prior to the 1970s, the US census classified Hispanics as White.

    All these Hispanics, are eligible for Affirmative Action :
    Cameron Diaz,
    Desi Arnaz (co-lead actor of the classic sitcom I love Lucy),
    Ted Cruz,
    Marco Rubio,
    Director Guillermo Del Toro (Pan Labyrinth , Shape of Water),
    Giselle Bundchen (German ancestry Brazilian supermodel and Tom Brady's wife),
    Geraldo Riviera (talk show host, Jewish Cuban)
    former President of Mexico Vicente Fox would be eligible for AA if he moved to the US.
    2nd or 3rd richest man in the world Carlos Slim (Mexican of Lebanese ancestry) would be eligible for AA if he moved to the US. He owns a substantial stake of the NYT.
    Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, who is Jewish Hispanic

    There are tons of everyday Hispanics who look like Southern Europeans , and many that look Northern Europeans. A White male does get Affirmative Action, if he can claim Hispanic cultural background.
    Both @Rod1 and @ElKarlo are Hispanic posters who are White.
     
  13. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Im white now? cool.
     
  14. MicroBrew

    MicroBrew Steel Belt

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    Didn't you say in a thread some months back that you were Mexican of White ancestry? Or that you look White?
     
  15. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Looking white and being white are pretty different things.

    I have light skin and a lot of european features, but white is a social construct and going by the American one drop rule im not white.

    One isnt white in Mexico, one has "white skin" as a feature.

    There is a picture of me in the Mayberry thread.
     
  16. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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  17. alanb

    alanb Brown Belt

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    You've clearly internalized your oppressors morality. read Genealogy of Morals it will explain a lot.
     
  18. MicroBrew

    MicroBrew Steel Belt

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    Technically speaking: White = European and MENA according to US census. Realistically, White = if you look European. Ultimately it comes down to phenotype, which generally aligns with genotype.

    I don't really understand how you can say one isn't White in Mexico. Mexico's elite look White , along with the elites of most of South America. Mexico does have a caste system, with fully European (Criollos) or mostly European ancestry dominating the upper echelons. How is Vincente Fox not White? Salma Hayek and Carlos Slim are both White, since both are Caucasoid and US census classifies Levantines as White. Now the average American probably does not see Lebanese as White, but if they can pass, then they are assumed to be White. No one says Ralph Nader, Ray Lahood, Shia Lebouf are not White. And look at Guillermo Del Torro, that guy would be seen as White by all Americans.

    Before the 70s, Hispanics were White, thought in the 30s Mexican was classified as a race but LULAC (League of United Latin American Citizens) protested and stated Mexicans were White.The Mexican label was removed from Census racial categories.
     
  19. MicroBrew

    MicroBrew Steel Belt

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  20. Scheme

    Scheme Brown Belt

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    It's not fascinating and it isn't nuanced until you can prove that the non-Asians are getting in because of other factors. Why do you assume that non-Asians participate and excel in extra-curricular activities at a higher rate than Asians? From my own experience (I attended a school that was ~75% Asian), Asians were more likely to play an instrument, attend clubs and attend academic competitions. The only thing they didn't do at a higher rate than others was play sports.

    And in the end, the discrepancy is high enough to show that it is obviously discrimination against Asians and whites. You can make up whatever bullshit you want about it, but it's so clear as day that those people are being rejected at higher rates than others. And one might say that they are just helping blacks/hispanics, but when the number of positions is limited then it really is just discriminating against others.
     

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