the technical brilliance of fedor vs nogueira

[Strykerx]

This particular fight prove to me that Fedor is not better than Nog on the ground strictly speaking grappling wise. I think Fedor knew that, which is why he did not attempt to pass his guard, he did land in side control through throws but Nog quickly retain guard. I understand that its not the art but the fighter, however I think both fighters display their roots very well. Nog with constant submissions attempts, sweeps, always retaining guard. Fedor good balance and base, posture, reversal, sub defense.

Two masters of their respected arts both good in striking compete against each other in MMA.
To think it's been 5 years since their first fight and they are still number one & number 2 in their division. One of the most important fights in MMA history.

 

[georgejjr]

This particular fight prove to me that Fedor is not better than Nog on the ground strictly speaking grappling wise. I think Fedor knew that, which is why he did not attempt to pass his guard, he did land in side control through throws but Nog quickly retain guard. I understand that its not the art but the fighter, however I think both fighters display their roots very well. Nog with constant submissions attempts, sweeps, always retaining guard. Fedor good balance and base, posture, reversal, sub defense.

Two masters of their respected arts both good in striking compete against each other in MMA.
To think it's been 5 years since their first fight and they are still number one & number 2 in their division. One of the most important fights in MMA history.

Not that I disagree, but Fedor rarely does guard passes. He seems to believe that sitting in your opponents guard is a perfectly good situation ... and for him it would seem to be true.

 

[BruceCalavera**]

It seems to me that Nog could have done a much better job of controlling Fedor's ability to rain down strikes by attacking Fedor's base (i.e., his hips) directly instead of by trying to "break" Fedor's posture (which Fedor had already deliberately "broken").[/QUOTE]

I'm thinking that if he would have done that more Fedor could have snuck his way into a guard pass.

 

[Strykerx]

Not that I disagree, but Fedor rarely does guard passes. He seems to believe that sitting in your opponents guard is a perfectly good situation ... and for him it would seem to be true.

I see what your saying, but I think that he rarely does guard passes because he is not that skill at it (Just the nature of his grappling background nothing wrong with it). He always aims to improve his position. With the exception of the Nog fight which he was trying to prove a point. Maybe now it is different I don't know but back then against Schilt he did pass guard and improve but Semmy keep getting him back in guard. He didn't just want to stay in guard in that fight.

It's tough to really say.

 

[wOg]

i partly agree. but nog still played a very technical game, even while getting battered.

if we look at their second fight, before the headbutt and the NC, nog fought him completely different. he locked him up a lot more, moved his hips more and constantly looked for sweeps.

i've always felt sorry that fight ended in the NC because it would've been the greatest ground battle EVER.

and in the third fight fedor figured its better not to fuck with a determined nog on the ground and just outboxed him.

Interesting points. I need to watch those fights again.

 

[Hazuki Ryo]

Great thread! War fedor

 

[Uchi Mata]

This is an interesting statement that I agree with. It may have a lot to do with the fact that Nog was actually on the offense against Fedor and gave him more opportunities, and that everybody since then knew what was coming and went into survival mode. There has never been more devastating GnP, and if a guy like Nog couldn't outslick him....is it really worth it?

Late career Fedor stopped going to ground more or less. One of the things that stands out to me about his early career vs later is how easily he used to take everyone down, and how later on those TDs stopped working so well. Perhaps it was that he fought a lot of guys without great wrestling or clinch games early on so he was able to just rag doll them, or maybe he fell in love too much with his own power, or maybe he just couldn't do it against the big, technical modern HWs (most guys he fought in his prime were either big or technical but not both). Whatever the reason, I thought his game really stopped working so well when he stopped looking for the clinch and the throw. The only other guy who ever did that kind of damage on the ground was prime Tito, and even he never had the pop Fedor had.

 

[SummerStriker]

lol

 

[Hotora86]

Great thread! War fedor

Great necro! War zombies!

 

[Uchi Mata]

Did not even notice the massive necro on this. Who finds these things?

 

[JosephDredd]

The thing i got out of this fight is that most of Fedor's takedowns come from getting the opponent's weight onto one leg. from there the takedown is guaranteed.

I've really been trying to incorporate that idea with my BJJ sweeps. I've seen interviews where Rickson talks about "tipping the cube", where you need to get it up on one corner first, and it seems to be the exact same concept.

 

[Readybodisready]

so did i miss anything? does anyone have anything to add?

Werdum would have submitted him if they fought in Pride.