The swinging arm debate. | Page 3

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by TheBookofSpeed, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. ARIZE Orange Belt

    Oct 18, 2014
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    Gazing into the abyss
    If you don't know the series, they are called revolution of kicking, you can find the full thing in youtube.

    Because it's more of a snap kick, than a hip kick...the more you use your core to turn into the kick, the more you will use a swinging motion. But even there, you see the need for it.

    And yet he still uses the motion... For me it's proof that it's a needed detail for balance.

    Obviously i haven't the same experience in TKD as you, been training only 7years now in ITF, and it's was never my main discipline. But my master's master was a student of Choi Hong Hi himself, so its a good lineage. That means classes were still strict about proper technique, but the arms kept still were only for demos and katas. For sparring, or breaking, arm movement are needed for balance or/and power. Obviously not like MT, but still it's there.

    One of the things i don't like in TMA, are the huge amount of techniques that are not applicable in sparring (or self defense). I was lucky to have a Master who is conscious about that, and even if he teaches the "proper" technique, he also teaches the fighting ones. (like the proper back kick vs the donkey kick). We spend hours and hours debating about MT vs TKD, obviously MT been better, but he is very open minded, even if he teaches all the traditional stuffs.

    Never been able to make the dracula guard work for me. I always felt that my crossing arm was not in a good position to attack, just to defend. Only been able to used with piercing knees...
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  2. mikiemike87 Blue Belt

    Sep 2, 2008
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    San Jose

    Since you mentioned basically a kick with purposes of a jab, I thought I'd refer you to Samart who had the greatest foot jab in history. Here we see an atypical variation of the footjab that I believe (correct me if Im wrong pundits) Samart created himself. The side teep allowed for the foot to be facing the center line and flow effortlessly into a solid boxing jab. Samart was a thai fighter, but one of the most unathletically gifted and atypical fighting styles as they come, adopting world class boxing techniques into the later stages of his career. However, he still chose to do a shallow arm swing on his teep. I believe I have seen Panpayak put his earmuffs on and teep from that position as well, so I believe TS does have some merits. I believe we're missing the forest for the trees in some regards. High level MT fighters have insane skills in range management, ring iq, and cadence shifts. So like in the original MT gif of Sangmanee punching off the arm swing, its very likely he picked up on his opponent trying to counter a perceived opening and countered the counter. My point is high level fighters can leave percieved openings as traps. An actual fight extends far beyond the realm of technique execution. Though I am happy TS actually tried kicking with an arm swing.

    Although I lend merits to aspects of other TMA's, and their potential place in full contact fighting, I also feel at times it can be too dogmatic. Personally, the ultimate proving space to me is under limited full contact rules, and there we see which techniques thrive and which techniques get tossed aside. The koreans haven't produced very many notable kickboxers from my knowledge, and the most notable Japanese kickboxers generally cross train in Thailand. If we take your only true full contact example in Benny Urquidez, his first and only loss was to a 5th ranked Thai, and after watching that fight, Benny wasn't able to punish any of Prayout Sittiboonlert kick attempts. This can be debated back to my original point of other factors outside of technique execution, but its possible Benny's application even at that point in the 70's was outdated. Instead of theorizing its application, I want cold hard proof that this application works in a modern day full contact setting, and Ill keep an open mind when/if that ever happens. Whereas we have Japanese Toshio Fujiwara who was karate/kickbox cross training in Thailand, who actually beat elite thais under their ruleset and won a prestigous national thai title in the same era as Benny, and you guessed it, he used a dramatic arm swing.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
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