The "secret" of Gracie's success - reproduction.

OKMS

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I just read the Carlos Gracie book and made a little video about my thought. I quote my self:

"Carlos Gracie - the creator of a fighting dynasty" by Reila Gracie of is amazing book on the history of Gracie-clan and the history of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil. It potrates Carlos as the mentor of the family - both in jiu-jitsu and spiritual matters. Reading it i got a realization that it was the size and strengh of the Gracie-family that really ensured the development and suvival of ther style. While other indedendet jiu-jistu clubs got absorbed into the great international Kodokan Judo organization, the Gracies where strong and big enough to walk their own path. So it was actually the religious beliefs of Carlos, namely; sex for repoduction, that enabled the independent development of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Ofcourse this is just part of the story, but I think its a big part."

I have been studying the history of jiu-jitsu, grappling and MMA for over ten years now, reading many modern and vintage books/articles about the subject. The offical story of skinny Helio (or Carlos) "inventing leverage" and creating better techiques in nice and simple. But if one looks at pre-1925 JJ/judo manuals and videos from one can spot most of the self-defence and grappling techniques includen in the Gracies old 36-lectiones or Helio Gracies book: Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

I see that the Gracie jiu-jitsu is a tradition that actually preserves and developes the type of Jiu-Jitsu that was popular in Europe and Americas in the early 1900.
Practically all the other JJ-schools joined Kodokan one by one, but the Gracies kept their independence. I see this was possible because of great size of the clan. They had the strenght in numbers. Ofcource the Gracies where (and are) also great at teaching, fighting and marketing. But I boubt if we where to practice Brazilian jiu-jitsu if Carlos did not have his religios beliefs - namely sex for re-poduction.

Anyway, I recomend everyone intrested in history of Brazilian jiu-Jitsu to read the book: "Carlos Gracie - the creator of a fighting dynasty"
 
Well, of course, family is a sure-fire network of power and support, expanding the 'brand' and carrying the torch further afield in both time and space.

In a very fundamental sense, people who are having children are winning at life.
 
Kind of crazy right. Sex for reproduction more important than monogomy. Isn't that how the Mormon religion started. Sounds pretty convinent for the dude that started it
 
Not to mention that in the apparently West Side Story-esque world of Rio in which BJJ competed against other martial arts for supremacy it was of great practical value to roll very, very deep. I don't think you ever just fought one Gracie, really.
 
Thanks for your review but your post is riddled with grammatical & spelling errors. You basically say the same thing in the both the first and third paragraph. I'm going to pass.
 


I just read the Carlos Gracie book and made a little video about my thought. I quote my self:

"Carlos Gracie - the creator of a fighting dynasty" by Reila Gracie of is amazing book on the history of Gracie-clan and the history of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil. It potrates Carlos as the mentor of the family - both in jiu-jitsu and spiritual matters. Reading it i got a realization that it was the size and strengh of the Gracie-family that really ensured the development and suvival of ther style. While other indedendet jiu-jistu clubs got absorbed into the great international Kodokan Judo organization, the Gracies where strong and big enough to walk their own path. So it was actually the religious beliefs of Carlos, namely; sex for repoduction, that enabled the independent development of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Ofcourse this is just part of the story, but I think its a big part."

I have been studying the history of jiu-jitsu, grappling and MMA for over ten years now, reading many modern and vintage books/articles about the subject. The offical story of skinny Helio (or Carlos) "inventing leverage" and creating better techiques in nice and simple. But if one looks at pre-1925 JJ/judo manuals and videos from one can spot most of the self-defence and grappling techniques includen in the Gracies old 36-lectiones or Helio Gracies book: Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

I see that the Gracie jiu-jitsu is a tradition that actually preserves and developes the type of Jiu-Jitsu that was popular in Europe and Americas in the early 1900.
Practically all the other JJ-schools joined Kodokan one by one, but the Gracies kept their independence. I see this was possible because of great size of the clan. They had the strenght in numbers. Ofcource the Gracies where (and are) also great at teaching, fighting and marketing. But I boubt if we where to practice Brazilian jiu-jitsu if Carlos did not have his religios beliefs - namely sex for re-poduction.

Anyway, I recomend everyone intrested in history of Brazilian jiu-Jitsu to read the book: "Carlos Gracie - the creator of a fighting dynasty"


It got released in English?
 
Not to mention that in the apparently West Side Story-esque world of Rio in which BJJ competed against other martial arts for supremacy it was of great practical value to roll very, very deep. I don't think you ever just fought one Gracie, really.
I think many people would have challenged the Gracie's but somewhere in the back of their mind, if they fought a Gracie and won in a street fight, ten more would show up at your door. I don't think the respect given to them was solely for their abilities but the practical fear that they would be ganged up on later. They never stood on their own. Even in the ring, there is an implied threat that more would come after you.
 
Yes, it was released in English, but is currently out of stock.
The ganging up is a good point also. Its allways nicer to fight an individual than a gang or a clan.

My main relization was how the big Gracie-family was able to resist being absorbed my Kodokan (judo) in 60s when there was talk in Brazil about joining this international organization. Most of the independent Jiu-Jitsu clubs where absorbed, starting from the Budowai (London) in 1920s. It was established by Yokio Tani and Guji Koizumi. They where Jiu-Jitsu teachers but changed to Kodokan judo.

To KikoJones. Its true I repeated my self in the opening post. I think i did it again :) English garmmatic and spelling is not my strongest point. Feel free to pass.
 
Thanks for your review but your post is riddled with grammatical & spelling errors. You basically say the same thing in the both the first and third paragraph. I'm going to pass.

That's a little harsh.
 
Yes, it was released in English, but is currently out of stock.
The ganging up is a good point also. Its allways nicer to fight an individual than a gang or a clan.

My main relization was how the big Gracie-family was able to resist being absorbed my Kodokan (judo) in 60s when there was talk in Brazil about joining this international organization. Most of the independent Jiu-Jitsu clubs where absorbed, starting from the Budowai (London) in 1920s. It was established by Yokio Tani and Guji Koizumi. They where Jiu-Jitsu teachers but changed to Kodokan judo.

To KikoJones. Its true I repeated my self in the opening post. I think i did it again :) English garmmatic and spelling is not my strongest point. Feel free to pass.

Well the Gracie jiu jitsu is a business.

Kodokan Judo was never meant to be a business and look as a education tool to better humans.

I would think that kodokan judokas would frown upon business that profit of Judo?

But I could be wrong.

No way the Gracies would have given up their main source of income.

For example the judo instructors cannot promote his bb. It is the role of the federation. Loss of control and cash!
 
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Catch wrestling had a large number of practicitioners didnt it? Why did that fade out then?
 
it was of great practical value to roll very, very deep.

Of course in a challenge match you have to roll deep, 100% in those vale tudo rolls. Rolling deep in training is essential to developing effective bjj. Partners can always tap when it gets too deep to avoid injury etc.
 
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Wery good point from lechien! I am under impression that there where many independet, and money making, JJ-teachers around the world in first half of 1900 but bost of them switched to judo and joined Kodokan in some point. But for sure it was in the intrest (money and mover) of Gracies not to join non-profit organization like Kodokan. Althought Carlos dreamed thet he could be able to teach JJ for free, sponsored by the state.

Madscuebbles500. Both CACC and JJ had many practicioners early 1900. CACC turned little by little into show-wrestling and into collegian folk-style-wrestling, JJ turned into H2H combat and judo.
 
Wery good point from lechien! I am under impression that there where many independet, and money making, JJ-teachers around the world in first half of 1900 but bost of them switched to judo and joined Kodokan in some point. But for sure it was in the intrest (money and mover) of Gracies not to join non-profit organization like Kodokan. Althought Carlos dreamed thet he could be able to teach JJ for free, sponsored by the state.

Madscuebbles500. Both CACC and JJ had many practicioners early 1900. CACC turned little by little into show-wrestling and into collegian folk-style-wrestling, JJ turned into H2H combat and judo.

Actually it is incorrect.

Maeda is kodokan and was sent to preach kano jiu jitsu aka Judo to the world.
 
Actually it is incorrect.

Maeda is kodokan and was sent to preach kano jiu jitsu aka Judo to the world.

I am very aware of that. Many of the early "jiu-jitsu" teachers around the world where Kodokan judo guys. Some others had ther training in other JJ-styles like Tenjin Shiyo ryu ect. But it all was named and called just "Jiu-Jitsu" around the world. Even in Japan judo/jujutsu was used synonymysly in early 1900. The term judo - and Kodokan as an international organization - really took over around the wrold after WW2.

The point - or question - I am trying to make here is: 1. why all these early JJ-schools around the world desapeared? 2. but why Gracie-JJ survived? My simpefied answer is: 1. Because of big/strong Kodokan 2. because of the big/strong Gracie-family. Not because the technique was unique. Although now the technique is unique because it transimits the tradition of early 1900 jiu-jitsu/judo.
 
I think many people would have challenged the Gracie's but somewhere in the back of their mind, if they fought a Gracie and won in a street fight, ten more would show up at your door. I don't think the respect given to them was solely for their abilities but the practical fear that they would be ganged up on later. They never stood on their own. Even in the ring, there is an implied threat that more would come after you.
Stopped reading after I think.....

Is there any evidence to this?
 
Kind of crazy right. Sex for reproduction more important than monogomy. Isn't that how the Mormon religion started. Sounds pretty convinent for the dude that started it


Not as much of a contrast as one might think; one of the interesting ironies is that, empirically speaking, people who've had/are in polygamous relationships are actually less likely to have had kids. So in this case it'd be more like, 'sex for reproduction, and therefore monogamy'.
 
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Stopped reading after I think.....

Is there any evidence to this?

I'm not sure what kind of evidence you want. Talk to anyone who grew up in Rio in the 80s and 90s and they'll be happy to tell you about the Gracies descending on clubs (like, dance clubs) in big groups, kicking people out, and basically turning everything into shit shows which they could do because A. there were a lot of them, and they were all good fighters, and there weren't a lot of guns around this not being America and B. Gracie jiu jitsu was a very popular martial art among judges and attorneys in Rio and as such they basically never got heckled by the police, Brazil being a nation where the law is a flexible concept.
 
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