The S&C-related Studies Thread | Page 3

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by miaou, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. miaou barely keeping it together

    miaou
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    Your first link is the same as your second link (both link to the study with ibuprofen).


    Regarding NSAID use and myoskeletal adaptations, here is a relevant post from another thread a while back (I had included the study you just posted in that post):

     
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  2. tsukongk Orange Belt

    tsukongk
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    thanks!!

    Here is the correct first link
    Intermittent versus constant aerobic exercise: effects on arterial stiffness.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20187285
     
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  3. RedNeckJiuJitsu Black Belt

    RedNeckJiuJitsu
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    So basically, looking at that stuff you posted, taking aspirin in a preWO stack (such as ECA) might really be counter productive?
     
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  4. miaou barely keeping it together

    miaou
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    ^ entirely off the top of my head, I don't recall seeing any relevant studies using aspirin in particular as a NSAID.

    The concept is that the acute inflammatory responses to exercise are involved in training-induced adaptations and anything that blunts those acute inflammatory responses may also blunt the adaptations to training. I'm not really sure about it as I haven't really looked into it (never used pre-wo ECA), but I'm under the impression that aspirin as part of an ECA stack is not about its anti-inflammatory effects, but rather about its blood thinning effects. In other words, I'm not sure if and to what degree aspirin would affect training adaptations and if that would be more significant than any benefits you may get from using ECA pre-wo.
     
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  5. RedNeckJiuJitsu Black Belt

    RedNeckJiuJitsu
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    You're correct that aspirin isn't in the ECA stack for anti-inflamatory effects. IIRC, it's there to extend the half-life of the ephedrine and caffeine in your system. At least, I remember reading that somewhere in F13 or F15...
     
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  6. Aleks Sytsevich Super Saiyan

    Aleks Sytsevich
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    I remember reading that in DS's log a few years ago.
     
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  7. miaou barely keeping it together

    miaou
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    This is an interesting study published last year that just came under my attention.

    7-year longitudinal study of Oklahoma State University football payers, examining how their size, strength, power and speed evolved through their 4 years of collegiate training.

    Here is the abstract:

    And here is the press release: http://www.wolterskluwerhealth.com/...Football-Players-Gain-Strength-and-Size-.aspx


    Basically, size and strength increased all across the board (they got more muscular but also leaner and all the strength markers increased), but power (vertical jump) and speed (40-yd dash) did not increase at all (only exception being that players in "skill positions" improved their vertical but only during their first year at college).



    In my opinion, what this study shows is one of two things: either speed and power are almost entirely depended on genetics (or pre-existing conditions that cannot be affected by the time you are 18 years old), or the training they did (which apparently involved a lot of heavy weight training) isn't well-suited to increase power (vertical jumping) and speed.
     
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    Last edited: May 23, 2014
  8. CarbonFistprint Brown Belt

    CarbonFistprint
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    When I was in track in college, I took an interesting elective class called "Speed Improvement." We read a lot of studies and did a lot of research on ways to improve speed: Increase strength, increase endurance, increase mobility (stride length), increase stride frequency, improve form, and a few minor factors.

    Once of the assumptions that seems to bear out is that there's only a small increase in sprinting speed from an untrained to an optimally trained person. Don't remember the exact number but let's say 10-20% is about all the faster a person can get by training speed.

    Strength, however, has a massive improvement range over time. An untrained individual can often double their strength, given time and attention to strength training. So anyway I'm not surprised that this study shows similar findings.
     
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  9. Tosa Red Belt

    Tosa
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    And none of these athletes were initially untrained, so the room for improvement would be even smaller.

    There's also a time issue - speed and power peak and decline at a much younger age than strength, leaving less time to try and tease out statistically significant improvement. So you're left with a combination of potential factors that make it difficult to show a statistically significant improvement in speed and power.

    Which is still a valuable finding.
     
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  10. Eric Brown Crusty old bastard

    Eric Brown
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    Prostaglandin inhibitor, IIRC.

    Will look for some shit on it on my day off (tomorrow).
     
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  11. Eric Brown Crusty old bastard

    Eric Brown
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    Well, speed is also heavily influenced by the mass of the individual, so while there may not have been any net increase in speed, given that they all got larger, they were all able to move greater mass at the same speed, which is a fairly significant training effect.
     
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  12. miaou barely keeping it together

    miaou
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    "Pure speed" (how fast a person can move his limbs) is generally said to be almost completely unaffected by training. As an extrapolation of that, max sprinting speed (the one you are obviously referring to) is not easily affected, and as you mentioned has as much to do with form and mobility improvements as much as anything else.

    Having said that, the marker for "speed" in this study was 40-yd dash time, which is more about acceleration and not max speed (and this speed/acceleration over short distances is what really counts as "speed" in most sports, like football/soccer/basketball/etc.). This attribute is much more "pliable" than max speed.

    These are collegiate athletes.

    There is no neurological decline at that age. Sprinters and other power athletes reach their peak in their mid twenties.

    This is a good point, and one I thought of myself. The same goes for the marker used for "power" (the vertical jump), that's why I included that in parenthesis in my comments. If an athlete has gown in size with no significant changes in his vertical jump, then that means he produces more power in order to jump to the same height (so it's really "relative power" and not absolute power we're talking about here).

    Still, speed and jumping ability are two very important performance factors and it's meaningful to note that they didn't go anywhere after 4 years of training. I wonder if a coach offered with a theoretical choice wouldn't prefer his "skill players" to be a bit smaller while being faster.

    Do you have access to the full text? It would be interesting to see if their relative strength (squat vs bodyweight) increased without affecting their acceleration/vertical.
     
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  13. Eric Brown Crusty old bastard

    Eric Brown
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    Yes, so peak power output has increased. Significant measures of performance, however, have not in an easily visible sense. By easily visible, I mean marketable/ones that the general public can easily understand in a four-second sound bite.

    Most I know would, yes.

    Yes. PM me an e-mail addy and I will send it to you tomorrow.
     
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  14. Squat More Blue Belt

    Squat More
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    Eric, do you own or have you read anything by Dr Stuart McGill as it pertains to the spine, hips, abdominal training / pressure, squatting etc?
     
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  15. Obscure Terror .................................

    Obscure Terror
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    I have Low Back Disorders. Trying to get my hands on Ultimate Back Performance FWIW.
     
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  16. Squat More Blue Belt

    Squat More
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    Yeah, I have issues too and I figured I'd ask Eric what he would recommend buying/reading first. I know guys like Chris Duffin and Blaine Sumner have both mentioned him in the past. A friend of mine who is online coached by Sumner introduced me to McGill about a month back. The books and Dvds are pricey so I wanted Eric's input first.
     
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  17. Eric Brown Crusty old bastard

    Eric Brown
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    His stuff is pretty good. Very cautious sort of guy, but then he has to be.
     
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  18. selfcritical Brown Belt

    selfcritical
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    This has also been replicated for acute loads of antioxidants. Release of free radicals, much like inflammation, plays some role in aerobic adaptations.
     
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  19. Seriously-Dead wubbalubbadubdub

    Seriously-Dead
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    I'm interested in looking into to see if Aspirin would have the same inhibitory properties as other NSAIDs. Aspirin's breakdown products and mechanism of action are particularly unique among the COX-2 inhibitors/non specific NSAIDs.

    Ephedrine might be muscle-sparing as well, so there might be some net-neutral interaction between aspirin and ephedrine.
     
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  20. FlexLuthor Blue Belt

    FlexLuthor
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    This should be stickied.
     
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