The Price of Socialized Medicine (England Charlie Gard Case)

[Execute]

If the kid had eaten right and slept 8 hours a day, he wouldnt had been born with a rare incurable disease that left him with irreversible brain damage.

Ripcare.

If the kid had a gun this wouldn't have happened!

 

[lfd0311]

Unlike most people, including TS i usually read the entire original article before commenting.

This is from TS.

But There’s Still Hope For Charlie
Charlie’s parents disagree with the court’s analysis and so do at least two international hospitals and five doctors, including two in the United Kingdom, who believe Charlie could benefit from the therapy. While it would not reverse any brain damage that has already occurred, the therapy could help to manage Charlie’s symptoms and increase his life expectancy.

So, its not just the english doctors opinions.

The only one who flat out denies reality is the mother.

People Across the World Are Pulling for Little Charlie
Charlie’s mother, who spends countless hours with her son, stated time and time again, “I don’t think he is suffering or I wouldn’t be here… I don’t think his brain function is as bad as what everyone else is saying.” She reiterated on Friday that he is not in pain or suffering: “We are completely devoted to him and he’s not in pain and suffering, and I promise everyone I would not sit there and watch my son in pain and suffering, I couldn’t do it.”

Yeah, so the mom thinks his brain damaged kid is not actually brain damaged.

And we have people with vested financial and academic interests into feeding into that mother's dellusion, a million dollars and a chance to test a medicine on the most deadly form of the disease. That's for profit medicine for you, preying into the emotional distress of individuals by giving them false hope.

......And? Again, not even every doctor involved (Psst, not even all the English ones) agree to the level of brain damage. All that says is that this treatment won't reverse brain damage. The mother then says that she doesn't believe that his brain is as badly damaged as indicated because of.... other opinions.... Your response to that is to call her "delusional". You're a real piece of work, pal.

You asked me for an instance where government forced death upon an individual against the parents wishes, i pointed one out for you..

Nope, I said child. that was the best you could come up with. Once again, you just made my point for me.

False argumentation, the kid isnt going to be killed, nature killed that kid. He is going to be removed out of life support and there are tons of times where life support wishes get overrun, the kid is in a persistant vegetative state with severe brain damage and an incurable disease.

You want to see what a real death panel looks like? look no further to American private system.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/31/insurance-companies-denied-treatment-to-patients-o/

People being offered assisted suicide instead of actual care.

You can try to church it up however you want to, but to forcibly remove the parents as the legal guardians and appoint a court ordered guardian who is actually meeting with the doctors and making decisions while the parents are kept away, P.S., to actually legally advocate for death against the family's wishes with out anything even remotely close to a medical consensus is the absolute definition of killing this child. Call me when American doctors or the American insurance industry starts actively telling parents, or people in general that best case scenario is just death. Keep trying to equivocate that.

 

[Rod1]

Nope, I said child. that was the best you could come up with. Once again, you just made my point for me.

http://wtkr.com/2017/06/08/baby-dies-after-judge-denies-appeal-to-keep-him-on-life-support/

Took me 5 seconds again.

A 7-month-old boy has died after a judge denied an appeal filed by the parents to keep him on life support at Vanderbilt University Medical Center.

Steffen Rivenburg Jr. was removed from life support on Thursday afternoon. The child’s biological parents filed court orders to keep their son on life support, but a Montgomery County judge denied appeals, deciding the doctors know what’s best.

 

[Rod1]

......And? Again, not even every doctor involved (Psst, not even all the English ones) agree to the level of brain damage. All that says is that this treatment won't reverse brain damage. The mother then says that she doesn't believe that his brain is as badly damaged as indicated because of.... other opinions.... Your response to that is to call her "delusional". You're a real piece of work, pal.

If the kid needs life support in order to breathe, his brain is toasted.

Its nothing new, people want to believe their loved one is not really dead. I personally would allow the parents to go with the procedure, i dont care much.

The ridiculous thing is blamed socialized medicine, im pretty sure most if not all insurance companies would deny the procedure too.

You can try to church it up however you want to, but to forcibly remove the parents as the legal guardians and appoint a court ordered guardian who is actually meeting with the doctors and making decisions while the parents are kept away, P.S., to actually legally advocate for death against the family's wishes with out anything even remotely close to a medical consensus is the absolute definition of killing this child. Call me when American doctors or the American insurance industry starts actively telling parents, or people in general that best case scenario is just death. Keep trying to equivocate that.

I posted one example you wanted, a 7 months child removed from life support against the parents wished by court order.

 

[SMEAC]

So you dont think life-prolonging coverage is never denied under a private healthcare system?

I know that you don't actually understand the US you just latch on to hateful sound bites and click bait, but insurance companies decline to pay for things they don't stop people from actually getting healthcare.

 

[SMEAC]

http://wtkr.com/2017/06/08/baby-dies-after-judge-denies-appeal-to-keep-him-on-life-support/

Took me 5 seconds again.

A 7-month-old boy has died after a judge denied an appeal filed by the parents to keep him on life support at Vanderbilt University Medical Center.

Steffen Rivenburg Jr. was removed from life support on Thursday afternoon. The child’s biological parents filed court orders to keep their son on life support, but a Montgomery County judge denied appeals, deciding the doctors know what’s best.

Did you think no one would notice the part where the kid was taken by protective services because the parents were unfit?

 

[Rod1]

Did you think no one would notice the part where the kid was taken by protective services because the parents were unfit?

How is that relevant to the point that was being asked.

He asked for a case where a court forced a child to die against parents wishes, i gave one.

 

[Rod1]

I know that you don't actually understand the US you just latch on to hateful sound bites and click bait, but insurance companies decline to pay for things they don't stop people from actually getting healthcare.

LOL this is fucking rich.

So you and a bunch of other sick bastards latch onto a dead baby and a dellusional mother suffering in order to bitch and moan against the British healthcare system, just to defend insurance companies, big pharma and a bunch of other fat cats ripping people off.

I dont hate America, i hate corporatist bootlickers that take advantage of a poor mother in order to fuel a clear corporatist agenda.

If you like private healthcare, then go ahead and keep spending the largest amount of money per capita in healthcare, you dont need to criticize the NHS in order to validate your decisions.

Terminally ill people get denied coverage all the time in America and left to die, get over it, there is no use trying to prolong the suffering of a kid that wont have a life.

 

[Prutfis]

Not an argument. Would you like me to push your shit in with facts again?

Lol. It's theory boy

 

[snakedafunky]

So you and a bunch of other sick bastards latch onto a dead baby and a dellusional mother suffering in order to bitch and moan against the British healthcare system, just to defend insurance companies, big pharma and a bunch of other fat cats ripping people off.

I don't think those guys actually want to defend big pharma or insurance companies.
They just simply dislike everything associated with left, liberals or any form of socialism in it.
That they have to take the position from the big pharma and insurance company in order to disagree with the left.

So somehow they have convinced themselves that this is an issue with socialist medicine and not simply the UK courts acting according to UK law.
Like you pointed out all governments step in and overrule certain parents wishes. Even the US, now when they step might vary and can be up to debate.
But yeah they can't wrap their head around that this is not a left vs right issue so they pretend not to get it because they can never ever side with "socialized" medicine.

 

[Yellowking]

The infant mortality rate in US is 5.8 per 1000 live births. The U.K.'s is 4.3. Why don't you supporters of the US's fee for service system want babies to live?

 

[SMEAC]

How is that relevant to the point that was being asked.

He asked for a case where a court forced a child to die against parents wishes, i gave one.

You're so right rod, the fact the parent were such people of virtue that CPS took their kids does nothing to ruin your point...in fantasyland

 

[SMEAC]

LOL this is fucking rich.

So you and a bunch of other sick bastards latch onto a dead baby and a dellusional mother suffering in order to bitch and moan against the British healthcare system, just to defend insurance companies, big pharma and a bunch of other fat cats ripping people off.

I dont hate America, i hate corporatist bootlickers that take advantage of a poor mother in order to fuel a clear corporatist agenda.

If you like private healthcare, then go ahead and keep spending the largest amount of money per capita in healthcare, you dont need to criticize the NHS in order to validate your decisions.

Terminally ill people get denied coverage all the time in America and left to die, get over it, there is no use trying to prolong the suffering of a kid that wont have a life.

Does pretending that I spend more than you and that my healthcare isn't leagues better than yours make you feel better?

 

[Rod1]

You're so right rod, the fact the parent were such people of virtue that CPS took their kids does nothing to ruin your point...in fantasyland

So because a court took the child from the parent its ok for a court to allow a kid to die.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

[Rod1]

Does pretending that I spend more than you and that my healthcare isn't leagues better than yours make you feel better?

I certainly spend far less than you for better care. Or i could spend zero pesos for comparable care.

But sure, just because a pill of the same brand, same lab and same manufacturing standards is 10x more expensive in the States it means it heals 10x more right.

 

[SMEAC]

So because a court took the child from the parent its ok for a court to allow a kid to die.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

I know that simple concepts blow your mind Rod, but the state was the guardian of the child due to the parents sucking at life

 

[SMEAC]

I certainly spend far less than you for better care. Or i could spend zero pesos for comparable care.

But sure, just because a pill of the same brand, same lab and same manufacturing standards is 10x more expensive in the States it means it heals 10x more right.

Good lord you are special

Either you don't know the meaning of certainly in English or you are as fucked up as a football bat; and thinking that you get better care seals the deal on you eating a big bowl of stupid today.

 

[Rod1]

Good lord you are special

Either you don't know the meaning of certainly in English or you are as fucked up as a football bat; and thinking that you get better care seals the deal on you eating a big bowl of stupid today.

Again, Americans (well most people in particular) tend to correlate price with quality.

Im not saying Mexico healthcare system is better than that of America, you said me in particular and you in particular, and i can assure you that i certainly have.

 

[Rod1]

I know that simple concepts blow your mind Rod, but the state was the guardian of the child due to the parents sucking at life

And the same is true with the UK child, the state courts overtook the parents decisions.

 

[K1levelgrappler]

The price of socialized medicine is that I can't hollow out my brain dead baby and replace his organs with spare parts from an old Teddy Ruxpin doll.