The Pharmacist's Corner

[POINT312]

First off, I never said all pharmacists were smart, or good.

Second, no offense, but your wife might be inflating her job description a little bit.

Third, Pharmacy techs do not do all the "work" they do all the technician work. Anyone can can be trained to count pills, make ivs, etc. Pharmacists are not required to do those things, they are responsible for the patient. As for pharmacists being abstract/wierd I know a few myself, but they are no more abstract or wierd than accountants, doctors, finance people, morticians etc. Every specialty has their wierd ones.

Fourth, you are absolutely right, if a pharmacist makes an error a lot of people get hurt. That is why we are responsible, and the technician is not. If your wife makes a mistake, and a pharmacist doesnt catch it, who do you think gets in trouble?

Fifth, If you were in surgery would you want the surgery tech to do your open heart or the surgeon? If you were getting your taxes done would you want an accountants assistant or the accountant doing your taxes. If you were in court would you want the para-legal defending you or the lawyer....nuff said.

The pharmacist sits and verifys in hospitals....some compound and make tpns sometimes....
retail same thing verifies and consults...


techs-fill,pull drugs,make labels,fill machines all over the hospital,deliver meds...your right it justifys the amount of money they make....however since it sounds like you made it through school i congratulate you...now dont be a wierd freak when you get older....


If the pharmacist dont catch it they both get written up however i think you are asking retorical questions.....yeah you get a complaint with the boards ....but thats why they make all the money more resposability...


also anyone can be trained to be a tech or a pharmacist!!!



and of course not i wouldnt want a surgery tech or any of the people you menton to work on me i want the guy who is getting paid so much money to do the work....



I have met many pharmacists over the years...there are a few who are normal but i have also met alot of them who are wierd it takes a different kind of person to be a pharmacist ill leave it at that....not many people would go down that path and get that much schooling and not be something bigger....


you have given some solid advice to everyone keep up the good work!!!

 

[wyandotterph]

I think if this topic was in the grain of, "hey, I'm a pharmacist, shoot me some questions about pharmacy" this would be a valuable thread. A thread covering things like drug interactions, dosages and timing, "why is my painkiller making me itch," minor injury treatment, "which otc does what better," and the things the op was primarily trained in would be quite the asset to have. I'm not trying to downplay or be trite about pharmacy here, I genuinely think this would be a cool resource. Perhaps I've oversimplified it, though.

But, this happens every time someone who isn't (or is but improperly/inadequately) trained in the sports/performance nutrition field offers a Q&A here.

For Christ sakes this thread started with


and two months ago...

At least you were skeptical.



I like this thread, perhaps for a different reason, and I'm glad it hasn't been locked. This thread shows an example of the root of why I like this board so much. Hard for me to explain though. The whole "My doctor, the AHA and everybody knows X" vs "It may go against conventional wisdom, but according to this, Y looks more plausible" clash. Still not explained well... hopefully you get the jist of what I mean.

LOL, that should show you that I am not closed minded, and would love to read research and personal testimonials on a product with limited information. TrainerX somehow thinks that this affects my credibility, I wonder why he would think that? Its not like they come out and say whats in it, its listed as proprietary blend for petes sake.

 

[wyandotterph]

The pharmacist sits and verifys in hospitals....some compound and make tpns sometimes....
retail same thing verifies and consults...1


techs-fill,pull drugs,make labels,fill machines all over the hospital,deliver meds...your right it justifys the amount of money they make....however since it sounds like you made it through school i congratulate you...now dont be a wierd freak when you get older....


If the pharmacist dont catch it they both get written up however i think you are asking retorical questions.....yeah you get a complaint with the boards ....but thats why they make all the money more resposability...2

also anyone can be trained to be a tech or a pharmacist!!!3



and of course not i wouldnt want a surgery tech or any of the people you menton to work on me i want the guy who is getting paid so much money to do the work....



I have met many pharmacists over the years...there are a few who are normal but i have also met alot of them who are wierd it takes a different kind of person to be a pharmacist ill leave it at that....not many people would go down that path and get that much schooling and not be something bigger....


you have given some solid advice to everyone keep up the good work!!! Thank You

1Or you could be like me and be a clinical specialist. When I worked in the hospital I ran the ER department, did toxicology consults, ran codes, and made treatment decisions. Although your description is correct it is a little old

2Except the Pharmacist can be sued, and lose his/her license. The Pharmacist is responsible for the technician

3True but there really is not a fail rate or drop out rate for technician training. You are also comparing a Doctorate degree to a training program.

 

[wyandotterph]

Great thread.

As someone already pointed out, the biggest reason why the thread got derailed was because the TS offered to provide advice outside of his area of expertise. Essentially created a logical fallacy...

"Argument From Authority:
the claim that the speaker is an expert, and so should be trusted.

There are degrees and areas of expertise. The speaker is actually claiming to be more expert, in the relevant subject area, than anyone else in the room. There is also an implied claim that expertise in the area is worth having. For example, claiming expertise in something hopelessly quack (like iridology) is actually an admission that the speaker is gullible"

followed closely by appeal to some type of authoritarian source like an organization ..rather than an argument per se...

Ultimately the thread came to 'do as little as possible to establish/reestablish the equilibrium/do no hard' vs optimization of performance/health/etc

I wonder how TS will reply after one of his older supplement posts got posted.....I guess we'll stay tuned.

I really never claimed to be an end all be all expert, I did say that I would answer peoples questions. I will say that my education and research gives me an advantage over most people. My post about NO-xplode was more for me personally. There is no research on it so the next best thing to do is gather testimonials. Nothing wrong with that. I also never claimed that supplementation was worthless, i just want people to know what they are taking.

 

[Sinister]

I can agree on education and research giving and advantage, granted it's continued. There's a difference between learning something once, and using that all the time versus continually learning and bringing learned material into practical use. That's what makes athletes and those who delve into their specifically unique conditions so interesting, something new always pops up. It's just unfortunate that a lot of them nowadays when bringing things such as this to light, are met with a "you should stop doing the stuff you do"...which most frequently comes from a lack of understanding, paired with the moral wall of unwillingness to really look into a persistent occurrence.

It sucks, and it's not malicious, but it is currently the state of things. And it's very rare to come across someone who is willing to delve beyond their knowledge to find the best remedy for a problem, as opposed to the first one that will restore "normal" status. I will also say, though, that there are very few things more dangerous than a moron with a lot of information (who is also possibly an asshole). So even if one has an inquisitive mind, finds science/medicine easy to comprehend and interesting, at the very least surround yourself with a network of smart people who can tell you when an idea you have is bordering on the "crackpot" side of the mind, and even moreso don't be afraid to sign up for some courses.

 

[DEVILsSON]

"I really never claimed to be an end all be all expert, I did say that I would answer peoples questions."

My point was you chose to answer questions which were not in your area of expertise. It's like Albert Einstein fielding questions in medicine or pharmacology. i.e. a brilliant man by any measure, but only in his area of study and research. Perhaps nutrition was part of your curriculum but I have to wonder to what extent.

Additionally unless something is used on a fairly regular basis, it's quickly forgotten.

Telling people for instance to take 1g of fish oil as a base dosage is not very helpful imho or something that the person with no knowledge of pharmacology couldn't get on their own by simply reading the label of their supplement. If in your initial posts where you discussed this, you could have provided multiple scenarious of how fish oil could be used, the potential sideeffects, long term consequences, etc then yes that would have been more helpful. Dont take this as me trying to rail against you, as I appreciate when a professional takes time out of his day to answer questions in his area of expertise, but only when that is in the area of expertise and done with some type of clarity and depth. (two of the biggest things pointed by XT)

 

[nate schroeder]

"You're doing the same thing wyandotte did in the beginning of this thread. He may very well be an excellent pharmacist. That doesn't make him qualified to advise people about nutrition/supplementation/training-for the record, I am asserting that I, nor anyone else here is, either (see previous post).

But just because you're a medical professional doesn't mean you know anything about nutrition/supplementation/training. No one is saying Western doctors, etc. are "mediocre." They are the best at what they have actually been trained to do. For most of them, that does not include nutrition/supplementation/training or optimal human performance." from trainerx
Again you make statements that have no backing, here is a link to our Board Certification for Pharmacists. Now mind you not every pharmacist is board certified, just like every doctor is not, but the board certification is education added onto the base education learned in all pharmacy schools.

Board of Pharmaceutical Specialties - Specialties: Nutrition Support Pharmacy

To Romi,
Im sorry that I came off as a jackass, but come on what would you do if you were being attacked by someone with less experience than you in your field telling you what to do? I do not think that having an education is the end all be all of training, but I do think that it stands for something. Those who discredit a degree because they are rebels who feel that they didnt need to go to college is very upsetting. You do realize that I never said anything rude, or in a jackass manner, until someone attacks my statement with no scientific backing of their own. The original question asked about taking Fish Oil as a supplement and my response was not wrong, it was just not what trainer x wanted to hear. Furthermore, I learn something new everyday, but I am not going to tell someone to overload on fish oil, if their is no solid evidence that doing so helps. Remember when everyone heard Vitamin E was heart healthy, then everyone started loading on Vitamin E. What happened? People began overdosing on vitamin E, to the point that we saw cardio toxic effects. When I got into pharmacy it was to help people, I knew nothing, and was the product of old wives tales and home remedies to fix ailments, all of which did nothing or caused more harm than good. I know TrainerX wants people to make informed decisions, but the average person does not understand how to even read an experimental study. Furthermore, they do not understand the statistics to know when a study is full of crap.

At no time was I trying to offend anyone, just trying to help, and sorry but I refused to be criticized by someone hiding behind a keyboard without any credentials (trainerx).

well put.

 

[turbozed]

I used to believe this. There's a point when you start editing wikipedia articles for poor exposition (after finding the information elsewhere) that it becomes clear how inadequate the internet is. "Variance and covariance in vectors" was my first. Traumatizing.

I said it could theoretically be done, not that it would be easy. One of the most important skills in this world of information overload is how to sift through the nonsense, bullshit, and superfluous crap to actually arrive at something useful. It's a reflection of humanity in general. There are enough bright spots in sea of uselessness to keep you busy until rapture.

 

[wyandotterph]

"I really never claimed to be an end all be all expert, I did say that I would answer peoples questions."

My point was you chose to answer questions which were not in your area of expertise. It's like Albert Einstein fielding questions in medicine or pharmacology. i.e. a brilliant man by any measure, but only in his area of study and research. Perhaps nutrition was part of your curriculum but I have to wonder to what extent.

Additionally unless something is used on a fairly regular basis, it's quickly forgotten.

Telling people for instance to take 1g of fish oil as a base dosage is not very helpful imho or something that the person with no knowledge of pharmacology couldn't get on their own by simply reading the label of their supplement. If in your initial posts where you discussed this, you could have provided multiple scenarious of how fish oil could be used, the potential sideeffects, long term consequences, etc then yes that would have been more helpful. Dont take this as me trying to rail against you, as I appreciate when a professional takes time out of his day to answer questions in his area of expertise, but only when that is in the area of expertise and done with some type of clarity and depth. (two of the biggest things pointed by XT)

Nutrition was covered quite extensively in our curriculum.

I agree that if you dont use it you lose it, as a hospital pharmacist I used it everday when rounding with the docs and nutritionists to decide on patients TPNs for the day.

I agree I could have been a little more informative. I should have asked if he gets any omegas in his current diet. I made an assumption which is never good, but due to the nature of the beast (just being fishoil) it should have been asked, but it wasnt a mandatory thing. I take criticism well, and will incorporate that into the next answer I give.

 

[XMoker]

Nutrition was covered quite extensively in our curriculum.

Food pyramid/AHA nutrition for the sick/recovering and the "average American" or sport nutrition for the performance athlete? That's what it boils down to, I think. Half of that food pyramid and AHA bullshit is counter-intuative to the goals of 99% of the readers here.

Stick to what you know and this will be a better place...

I'll even make up some questions that might apply here to get us started.

1.) Sometimes my codine painkiller makes me itch, why?
2.) How should I store my medications? Is it okay to keep a small bottle in my car during the winter/summer months? What about the fridge or in the bathroom medicine cabinet?
3.) Besides bathing in Purell, are there more reasonable topicals that limit my chances of contracting Staph, Ringworm and other conditions after mat time? Do "Defense Soap" products actually help?
4.) Are there instances of generics not being as effective as name brands? The active ingredients are the same right? What about the fillers? Do sub-par fillers alter the release time causing too fast/slow absorption?
5.) My pills say to take with a meal, is a glass of grapefruit juice or milk good enough?

 

[romistrub]

I said it could theoretically be done, not that it would be easy.

No doubt, but that kinda defeats the purpose of the internet. It's supposed to make everything easier, right? :icon_neut <-- my dismayed face

 

[JSN]

lol @ thinking he just learns the food pyramid in pharmacy school.

 

[XMoker]

Don't nitpick semantics, you know what I mean.

 

[JSN]

i know that instead of picking someone useful's brain in this thread advantageously, 3/4 of the forum has decided to assert some inferiority complex about how they know so much more than a trained professional with many years of relevant experience.

 

[wyandotterph]

i know that instead of picking someone useful's brain in this thread advantageously, 3/4 of the forum has decided to assert some inferiority complex about how they know so much more than a trained professional with many years of relevant experience.

Well thank you very much :icon_chee You are a keeper!!

 

[jodka]

We should change this to just questions about Pharmaceuticals. I think it could have saved a lot of the back and forth bullshit that this thread has become.

I'd bet a lot of people here are on some sort of prescription drugs and has good questions to ask, that only a pharmacist might have a good answer to.

 

[Cooz]

Do you know where in the digestive tract various medicines are absorbed? Is that ever taken into account when prescriptions are made?
Only thing I know off the top off my head is that Vitamin B is absorbed in the ileum and I believe iron (for the most part) too.

 

[wyandotterph]

Food pyramid/AHA nutrition for the sick/recovering and the "average American" or sport nutrition for the performance athlete? That's what it boils down to, I think. Half of that food pyramid and AHA bullshit is counter-intuative to the goals of 99% of the readers here.

Stick to what you know and this will be a better place...LOL Ok

I'll even make up some questions that might apply here to get us started.

1.) Sometimes my codine painkiller makes me itch, why?
2.) How should I store my medications? Is it okay to keep a small bottle in my car during the winter/summer months? What about the fridge or in the bathroom medicine cabinet?
3.) Besides bathing in Purell, are there more reasonable topicals that limit my chances of contracting Staph, Ringworm and other conditions after mat time? Do "Defense Soap" products actually help?
4.) Are there instances of generics not being as effective as name brands? The active ingredients are the same right? What about the fillers? Do sub-par fillers alter the release time causing too fast/slow absorption?
5.) My pills say to take with a meal, is a glass of grapefruit juice or milk good enough?

I assure you we are worth more than this

 

[XTrainer]

i know that instead of picking someone useful's brain in this thread advantageously, 3/4 of the forum has decided to assert some inferiority complex about how they know so much more than a trained professional with many years of relevant experience.

He has yet to demonstrate any actual knowledge of the field in question (nutition/supplementation/training for serious athletes). Every time he has tried to actually say something other than "EXCUSE ME, I'M A PHARMACIST!!!," his arguments have been blown into oblivion.

EVERYONE here welcomes wyandotte to the discussion, but if he can't make an argument with resorting to "I'm more educated than you so I'm right," he's not contributing anything.

Let me rephrase this, in case I wasn't clear: I don't care if a poster has 30 Ph D's...an argument CANNOT be validated by education or experience, only by EVIDENCE. If his education and experience provide that evidence, GREAT--prove it.

 

[wyandotterph]

Do you know where in the digestive tract various medicines are absorbed? Is that ever taken into account when prescriptions are made?
Only thing I know off the top off my head is that Vitamin B is absorbed in the ileum and I believe iron (for the most part) too.

The small intestine (composed of the duodenum, jejunum, and the ileum) is the "main" site for absorption. Yes this is taken into consideration by pharmaceutical companies, hence the invention of enteric coating, time released capsules/tablets, etc. Although some nutrients are absorbed in the ileum, the majority of most medications/nutrients are absorbed in the duodenum and jejunum because they have a larger surface area (duodenum>jejunum>ileum) brought on by the existance of folds, villi, and microvilli which are pretty much absent in the ileum.