The Old US Marine LINE system vs UFC?

vcmmafan

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Would LINE work on a top tier UFC fighter outside the ring? Some people get the impression that Marines are always great in H2H. Maybe they aren't. But it does seem to be great for self defense... Why did the Marines abandon it? Just curious.

I would imagine that the military would have the resources and experience to develop an art that would make the others obsolete or redundant if they really wanted too...

EDIT: I didn't know shit in 2013

lol @ usmc martial arts
 
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The marines currently have their own MMA program called MCMAP (marine corps martial arts program). Was adopted around the same time I was in.

After looking over the document I noticed Most of the techniques are still used in MCMAP.
 
No it would not. I've studied it extensively

LINE is very ridge in its responses. Which is why the corps changed the program
 
Haven't we all agreed that manuals are practically useless when compared to actually sparring with resisting opponents under the tutelage of a competent instructor?
 
I heard from a few marines they abandoned LINE bc it was more focused on killing aggressors. The switch to MCMAP came bc they wanted to subdue their enemies without killing them (for a myriad of reasons)

There's probably actual marines on the board who can answer this better.
 
lol what a ridiculous thread.. all these military myths from u americans are hilarious.
 
LINE was better than TKD / Karate self defense, which was what we had for full spectrum hand to hand fighting here.

The military is full of martial arts nerds, and they are serious about winning fights. It makes sense they got on board with the better, new thing.

When the next better thing comes out, I'm sure they will get on board with that to.
 
What's ridiculous about it?

I'm curious too because all I see is an assumption made by one person that may or may not be american.

That said I do find these threads to be commonly misinformed or assumptive about military h2h. The US military does not focus it's training on one vs one H2H combat, they focus on team combat using combined arms because that's what we do.

In basic I think we spent 2 days doing H2H and even then it involved using your rifle as a melee weapon. Meanwhile we probably spent a good 30-40 days learning to shoot and move like a team. Get the picture?

My unit was a combat arms unit and we never once got any H2H training, you had to seek that shit out on your own just like everyone else.
 
I'm curious too because all I see is an assumption made by one person that may or may not be american.

That said I do find these threads to be commonly misinformed or assumptive about military h2h. The US military does not focus it's training on one vs one H2H combat, they focus on team combat using combined arms because that's what we do.

In basic I think we spent 2 days doing H2H and even then it involved using your rifle as a melee weapon. Meanwhile we probably spent a good 30-40 days learning to shoot and move like a team. Get the picture?

My unit was a combat arms unit and we never once got any H2H training, you had to seek that shit out on your own just like
everyone else.

Thats because if you are fighting hand to hand alone somewhere you are more then likely screwed. Guns >>>>>>> h2h there's a reason the samuri dont exist any more
 
aside from the most basic shit most of the line stuff is imo qualifies as dummy martial arts. Works in theory but in a real fight its not worth much. That manual is actually rather incomplete I think. I have a field manual around my house some where that goes into a lot more detail with a lot more diagrams especially pertaining to grappling.

the marines I know have said most of it was bs and that much of what they learned when it came to hand to hand fighting was learned while fucking around with buddies during down time.


I assume the USMC swapped to a new system because they realized it was more effective. MMA is a very good source of semi real world data when it comes to hand to hand fighting, may as well take what they can from it adding in shit like head stomping/axe kicks to downed opponents. both of which were prescription finishing techniques in line, usually it would be a diagram of a marine performing a short little axe kick followed by the words "Thus ending the encounter" or something like that.
 
Thats because if you are fighting hand to hand alone somewhere you are more then likely screwed. Guns >>>>>>> h2h there's a reason the samuri dont exist any more

Exactly, the military's goal isn't to train h2h combat machines so don't expect it's resources on the subject to be the end all be all. Heck most of their H2H training involved assumptions that you can kill your opponent without repercussions (old school, not sure what they teach now), which is not a good way to train for self defense or combat sports.
 
Is there any sparring in the LINE system? Also how often do marines and soldiers get to pugil stick fight. That sounds fun.
 
What's ridiculous about it?

you have all already answered the question for me..

when i was in something similar to "marines" in my country, i got to experience enough about H2H in the army.. more time shooting than fighting to put it lightly..

besides that i was pretty much the best H2H instructor on base myself, being a boxer.. lol

edit: madsquabble u learn tactics when grabbing the infantry vest, and some tactics with ur weapon like a melee club, but how hard is it to beat the sht out of someone who has zero timing, zero distance control, zero understanding of combination punching, zero footwork and angles and is scared of getting hit in the face... which is pretty much anyone with less than 2 yrs of training regularly...
 
Is there any sparring in the LINE system? Also how often do marines and soldiers get to pugil stick fight. That sounds fun.

no sparring, you repeat the basic line defenses over and over again against a non resisting partner.

There's a training video on YouTube teaching the system.
 
Is there any sparring in the LINE system? Also how often do marines and soldiers get to pugil stick fight. That sounds fun.

In basic we probably spent 10-20 minutes beating each other up with giant q-tips. It was fun as shit, but I don't remember their being any rhyme or reason to it.

Think american gladiators where they stand on the pillars and fight, that's basically what we did... great now I have that stupid american gladiator song stuck in my head.
 
Thats because if you are fighting hand to hand alone somewhere you are more then likely screwed. Guns >>>>>>> h2h there's a reason the samuri dont exist any more

I think H2H is probably more important for police and intelligence professionals than the military
in military engagements range is determined by weapons while in law and intelligence situations weapons are not really expected to be fired and so h2h range can be initiated without realizing it

the most important knowledge in both situations however is situation understanding and assessment
 
what I find funny is how every army guy (only about 3 so not representative) I have ever met here in Canada thinks they are a super dangerous h2h human weapon.
saying stuff like
"karate + bjj are nothing to a trained soldier like me I have learned to pull out your eyeballs in a blink"
"they taught us amazing moves to snap a mans spine in two"
so they actually seem to think they are unbeatable h2h
 
Back in like the Colonial era, the Victoria Era, Napoleonic style warfare when humans first started using firearms, and would like up and shoot until the officer yelled "fix bayonets" and "Charge", I imagine there was more real H2H as a huge part of the battle. How did they prepare soldiers back then for this?

During the American Civil War, I am sure they must have charged the enemy lines quite a bit. Did the forces do something similar to LINE or was it more realistic?
 
Back in like the Colonial era, the Victoria Era, Napoleonic style warfare when humans first started using firearms, and would like up and shoot until the officer yelled "fix bayonets" and "Charge", I imagine there was more real H2H as a huge part of the battle. How did they prepare soldiers back then for this?

During the American Civil War, I am sure they must have charged the enemy lines quite a bit. Did the forces do something similar to LINE or was it more realistic?

I think the LINE training is realistic for it. During a charge, if you are standing long enough to do martial arts moves, you are probably dead by gun shot anyway. One of the main reasons numbers are so important in a battle is that you are more likely to kill someone at an angle to you than someone right in front, and so on, so the side with more guys has unengaged flankers automatically.

What you want is everyone to run up, with the lead guys having the duty to catch bullets for the men behind them, and the next guys to immediately go for the kill and then continue the fight beyond.

The basic logic of sparring is self preservation. It is hard to spar balls out, two men going for the kill right away. If people are too trained, you have fucking around, standing there parrying and shit, which just won't do.

Look at it like this: the charge is declared either when you are sure it will succeed because the enemy is breaking, or when you are about to die anyway. In either case, there is no value in the men doing anything other than immediately going for the kill. You have to cut the other side's numbers down right away and take advantage while you have advantage.

That's how I understand it.

What produces this ability is the courage and willingness to take action and then carry it through to the end, no matter what happens. Education isn't always the best for that. Powerful belief in your ability to kill is good though. Think about TMA guys who never spar but are sure they could fight. It is kind of laughable.

Now switch it, and put yourself against worse than 1:1 odds, your ears are ringing from a grenade, there are no friendlies on your left hand side, and all those TMA guys come running at you with spears. That's fucked. Especially if they are as strong and fast as you.

TMA guys always claim their methods come from the military - well that is why.
 
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