The official thread of Yi Long - questions | Page 6

Discussion in 'Muay Thai and Kickboxing' started by Broadcast, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. heavenly kaghan Blue Belt

    heavenly kaghan
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    God would you stop with the stupid honor BS. It really isn't that complicated, he was wrong when he said sticky hands is similar to Judo gripping, and its as simple as that.
    Yi Liq sticky hands are not at all similar to Judo grip fighting and I challenge anyone who knows Judo to try out a single Yi Liq lesson to experience sticky hands first hand to prove me wrong.
    I know for a fact that I'm right and no amount of shit talking is going to change that.

    The problem with people here is that they are talking about things they have no experience or the slightest clue in and pretend to analyze as if they know what they are talking about. I long come to realize the fact that people here would not be able to tell evidence or logical fallacies when there is one. Why just look at the hypocrisy of all those claiming that there is no prove for TCMA winning, while using their "proof" of sub-par fighters who has no idea what they are doing getting dominated in the ring as "proof" of their own. They cannot even tell that their own evidence refutes the authenticity of the proof itself. Life is too short for this BS.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  2. Snubnoze707 High Level

    Snubnoze707
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    Ya, life is too short for this BS. Like reading all of these book reports you keep writing that doesn't give us any evidence of the efficacy of TCMA. You just keep telling us nobody has experience in it or that their are no true masters blah blah blah. I think their is reasoning for that.
     
    #102
  3. heavenly kaghan Blue Belt

    heavenly kaghan
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    Just because you do not understand historical citation as proper sources does not mean it isn't.
    I have observed that this forum pretty much comes down to this:

    1) Reasons why certain things are the way they are is irrelevant, what matters are simple current videos.

    2) Historical context do not matter, a style that has a low talent pool today implies that the style does not work ever in history and that the moves are all bogus.

    3) If someone actually explains how a traditional style work, because they actually know about the subject, they are a spokesmen for that style and all the evidence are not evidence and all their reasons are just excuses.

    My sources at least shows relevant fighters; sadly the same cannot be said of any of the so called "proof" all of the evidence garnered so far to proof the opposite. All I've seen are fighters who have demonstrated no more than a beginner's sloppy level in TCMA training; guys who have no idea how to apply basic moves, let along entire forms, and you are already treating it as some kind of definitive proof. You don't even know what the terms you are using in TCMA mean; the fact that he confused sticky hands with Judo gripping speaks volumes already. Enough is enough. Either use legitimate sources, study the style or stop talking about the subject.

    The argument you guys are reciting aren't new or amusing, it is pretty much the old cliche: whatever isn't found in ring sports does not work. Sorry, but real life doesn't work like that.
     
    #103
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  4. Snubnoze707 High Level

    Snubnoze707
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    It's not in us to prove CTMA inneffective it's on you to prove that it is. Newspaper articles from the 1920s is not sufficient evidence. It's 2017.
     
    #104
  5. heavenly kaghan Blue Belt

    heavenly kaghan
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    I know you cannot really comprehend anything remotedly complicated, but try to understand that your argument is actually a logical fallacy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

    You don't know how the burden of proof works do you? You are the one who made the claim, so you provide the proof. I am not the one who is claiming which style is superior, you are. I see different moves from different styles having their uses, and there are moves in TCMA that are not found in any of the popular common sports, and their application is hindered by the ruleset of these sports; thats it. Ring sport is not a proof. It is a sport with a set rule; no I do not mean KF is too deadly for the sport nonsense. I assume you have at least the common sense to realize that different styles work differently in different sports.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  6. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    Why don't you post some videos of you sparring bare knuckle with strikes? You mentioned something called a dim mak earlier, I'd like to see you do that.

    I know people that train at a MMA gym and they do well in BJJ tournaments, even beating people that do pure bjj. .In fact those MMA guys tend to have better leg locks and takedowns than many pure BJJ players.


    To be honest you're doing more to denounce TCMA than I am by complaining about the lack of good teachers compared to other martial arts. You haven't really explained why you prefer TCMA to judo or BJJ either. What's the appeal?

    why would you prefer to play sticky hands than do this?
     
    #106
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  7. heavenly kaghan Blue Belt

    heavenly kaghan
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    First, I did not say I used Dim mak earlier. I am merely explaining what that move is to Snubnooze cause he hasn't gotten a clue.
    Second, I am not high level in TCMA, and I am not a spokesmen for the style, but I know enough to tell who is a beginner and who is an expert; I am merely explaining why people's arguments using sport rulesets are flawed and revealing the fallacy of the "proves" used against it, so you guys needs to chill out.
    Third, you are off topic. Our conversation started when you claimed sticky hands was similar to Judo grip fighting, its not, and thats a fact you will know once actually start learning the damn style.

    I have no interest in a dick measuring contest between different styles, and if that is what you guys are after, I'm done.
     
    #107
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  8. Snubnoze707 High Level

    Snubnoze707
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    Actually I hadn't made the claim that it didn't work, the whole thread is me asking you for evidence that it does work. I never mentioned any other styles or claimed their superiority. Just show me a video... ANYTHING. SOMETHING...
     
    #108
  9. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    Ok Why would I want to learn TCMA ? What's the appeal? What do you like about TCMA that you don't like about judo or bjj or sanshou? Serious question.
     
    #109
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  10. heavenly kaghan Blue Belt

    heavenly kaghan
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    No thats why you are making sniding remarks about TCMA throughout this thread. And ignoring comments like this one below:
    Who are you trying to fool? You are clearly arguing that TCMA does not work, based on flawed evidence.

    I already told you that the amount of people who are actually high level in TCMA today are very rare and I have not found any of these schools having videos of real sparring or street fighting. But absence of videos does not mean absence of any evidence. I have already presented you with earlier fight accounts with mutually corroborating evidence, if that is not good enough for you then tough. This conversation wasn't even about whether TCMA works, its about the flawed notions that people hold about it and me correcting these facts.
     
    #110
  11. heavenly kaghan Blue Belt

    heavenly kaghan
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    There are a lot of TCMA styles, and I can only speak of the few I have seen.
    Again, it is just a completely different style with a different fight concept that is very complex. Having a completely different fighting style would always catch your opponent off guard. TCMA is about hand trapping, and limb control with a focus on mid range fighting, something not found in any of the combat sports I've seen. The power is generated through rooting to the ground more than rotation.
    However, if you really want to learn TCMA, I again suggest HK, Malaysia or Singapore. If you have to start in the US, then I suggest trying I liq under the Chin family first, it has flaws (such as lack of striking), but it has relatively less BS and it is an interesting style where you can find an entire new dimension to fighting you have never seen before. Decide for yourself whether you want to continue.
     
    #111
  12. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    I see. What TCMA style was common 20's and 30's and related to Lei Tai fights?
     
    #112
  13. OngBakBoy Double Yellow Card

    OngBakBoy
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    i'm not touching that with a 20 feet pole
     
    #113
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  14. redeyeguy A Mindful Savant

    redeyeguy
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    Yi Long is an entertaining fighter to watch. The way he absorbs all sorts of heavy strikes and keeps on blasting back; the shape of his head; the mystique behind his monk background - the kickboxing world needs a person like him. However, I don't think he's top caliber good. Made for TV kind of fighter IMO.
     
    #114
  15. Snubnoze707 High Level

    Snubnoze707
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    We can argue about who the burden of proof is on but that is a moot point.

    You've provided me these things:
    - High level CTMA practitioners are rare
    - There is no video footage of good CTMA
    - There is evidence of CTMA having some wins over Judo practitioners in the 1920's

    Got it. These are your exceptions to the rule when people have misconceptions of CTMA based on everything that they have seen and known about it. Rare high level practitioners to which no video exists of their training that use techniques that where used to beat Judo 100 years ago.

    o_O
     
    #115
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  16. SuperLuigi Black Belt

    SuperLuigi
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    Would those individuals be comfortable demonstrating their craft on video? I'm not doubting you, just curious. Live action sticky hand attack would be cool to see.
     
    #116
  17. Snubnoze707 High Level

    Snubnoze707
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    The camera would explode.
     
    #117
  18. heavenly kaghan Blue Belt

    heavenly kaghan
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    First, what is this so called everything people have seen and known about TCMA? They are nothing but stereotypes. I would like see such videos of such fights not under KB or MMA ruleset. Provide them or quit asking me to do the same and lets see if they are authentic, because there are also plenty of videos online of guys doing TCMA beating boxers yet people would just say these boxers have no idea what they are doing, and they might be right to an extent too, but that would apply even more to TCMA.

    And while you are at it, I would also like to see the guy who claimed Krav Maga is better than TCMA to provide the video of such fights too, come on, the same standard should apply to everyone. If they can't deal with the double standard, then they should just shut the hell up about which style is useless.
     
    #118
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
  19. heavenly kaghan Blue Belt

    heavenly kaghan
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    I already provided a video, it isn't complete combat (like BJJ without striking) but it should give you an idea what sticky hands look like.
    Sticky hands is only the name given in some styles like I liq, they are different in other styles, but the goal is mostly similar, to control the limbs so they can open up for strikes or throws.
     
    #119
  20. heavenly kaghan Blue Belt

    heavenly kaghan
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    Everyone cross trained. Using only shuaijiao or kicking or punching styles alone would be suicide. I will only describe the top ten. In the first few national tournaments, the top ten were variations of northern long fist-like systems and Tongbei, with a couple of internal systems like Taichi and Xingyi thrown in from time to time. More Mantis styles started to appear in the later years. Long fist and Tongbei were usually at the top because more people practice them, and that would automatically lead to a greater talent pool.
     
    #120
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