the necessity of foreign aid

[IGIT]

Legal or not its fundamentally immoral.

hi Greoric,

in the reality we're living in, it's legal for certain.

morality? i guess that's a point of view sort of thing. i get that you think it's immoral that you're forced at gun point to pay for saving the life of a 3rd world person (or any person, actually).

is it immoral to do an immoral thing that is for a moral rationale?

hmmm.

i've certainly done it, lol.

Greoric, i've enjoyed our exchanges, but i've decided that i'm of the mind that Yosemite National Park is not an immoral thing, even though i'm forced to help pay for it. as a commercial artist, i'm also with Peter Thiel...i'm ok with government strongarming me to pay for a Government entity that regulates intellectual property.

i'm ok with being forced, by gun, to pay for my property taxes so little beasts can attend a school.

i get where you're coming from, and i'm not unsympathetic, but i don't mind communal stuff and being forced to buy civilization via taxation.

- IGIT

 

[Greoric]

the individuals within the community agree on certain understandings (ie - i can't wander into someone else's plot and destroy what someone else is planting) mutually agree on some rules, yes.

the utilization comes when they plant things and reap the benefits (food for their kitchen or flowers just the aesthetic joy of flowers).

those who choose to be part of this community garden are members of the community. if you do not decide to join this community, you cannot wander into the communal garden and appropriate it for your own use.

the community can be very small, just a few gardeners on an acre of land, or bigger...the size of an entire town, like for the Saranac Community Store.

- IGIT

Look you're not thinking this through to completion.

Are people planting their own flowers or crops? Then they're necessarily excluding everyone else from that piece of dirt. If so, then that's not communal. Are people using tools to help them plant? Then they're necessarily excluding the tool's use from everyone else that might use it. If so, then that's not communal. Does anyone bring back any produce that they'll eat later? Then they're excluding its use from everyone else. If so then that's not communal. Is any one making any independent decision outside of the unanimous consent of the group? If so, then that's not communal.

The only community based decision is a framework for observing who's is what. In short, the community's recognition of individual property rights.

 

[IGIT]

Look you're not thinking this through to completion.

Are people planting their own flowers or crops? Then they're necessarily excluding everyone else from that piece of dirt. If so, then that's not communal.

hello Greoric,

maybe this is a tautological problem?

com·mu·nal
kəˈmyo͞on(ə)l,ˈkämyənəl/
adjective

1. 1.
   shared by all members of a community; for common use.
   
   - IGIT

 

[Greoric]

hi Greoric,

in the reality we're living in, it's legal for certain.

morality? i guess that's a point of view sort of thing. i get that you think it's immoral that you're forced at gun point to pay for saving the life of a 3rd world person (or any person, actually).

is it immoral to do an immoral thing that is for a moral rationale?

hmmm.

i've certainly done it, lol.

Greoric, i've enjoyed our exchanges, but i've decided that i'm of the mind that Yosemite National Park is not an immoral thing, even though i'm forced to help pay for it. as a commercial artist, i'm also with Peter Thiel...i'm ok with government strongarming me to pay for a Government entity that regulates intellectual property.

i'm ok with being forced, by gun, to pay for my property taxes so little beasts can attend a school.

i get where you're coming from, and i'm not unsympathetic, but i don't mind communal stuff and being forced to buy civilization via taxation.

- IGIT

No. Morality is most certainly not just a point of view, and that's easily disprovable.

We can tackle the big one first. "The price of civilization". I think you'll find that position is pretty superficial. Assuming that government hasn't killed more people than the plague and isn't the single most destructive institution in human society, why would you need to compel people to fund services they already want? Can you explain that?

 

[Greoric]

hello Greoric,

maybe this is a tautological problem?

com·mu·nal
kəˈmyo͞on(ə)l,ˈkämyənəl/
adjective

1. 1.
   shared by all members of a community; for common use.
   
   - IGIT

Precisely my point. At any point that an individual utilizes a piece of property he is necessarily excluding its use from all other members of the community.

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

hi Madmick,

i don't know if it is or isn't. alot of Republicans in congress seem to be very hostile to the idea of cutting foreign aid.

i'm wondering if Mr Trump has any idea what foreign aid is for, you know? i have an easy time picturing him having a long heart to heart with members of Congress or his Generals and reversing himself on this one.

- IGIT

Heya IGIT,

Sincerely,

- POTWR

 

[IGIT]

No. Morality is most certainly not just a point of view, and that's easily disprovable.

We can tackle the big one first. "The price of civilization". I think you'll find that position is pretty superficial. Assuming that government hasn't killed more people than the plague and isn't the single most destructive institution in human society, would you need to compel people to fund services they already want? Can you explain that?

hello Greoic,

i see government as just a thing, like a gun or something - guns don't kill anything all by themselves.

people kill other people, to my way of thinking.

as to your second question, i'd guess that its human nature to have free riders, and forcing everyone to have skin in the game precludes the possibility of anyone not paying their way?

what's your own take on it, Greoric?

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

Precisely my point. At any point that an individual utilizes a piece of property he is necessarily excluding its use from all other members of the community.

hi Groric,

people who don't join the community aren't part of the community. there's freedom going on, yes?

no one is forced to join a community.

- IGIT

 

[Greoric]

hello Greoic,

i see government as just a thing, like a gun or something - guns don't kill anything all by themselves.

people kill other people, to my way of thinking.

as to your second question, i'd guess that its human nature to have free riders, and forcing everyone to have skin in the game precludes the possibility of anyone not paying their way?

what's your own take on it, Greoric?

- IGIT

Sure, and would you qualify aggressive* violence as bad either on utilitarian grounds or as a categorical imperative?

 

[Greoric]

hi Groric,

people who don't join the community aren't part of the community. there's freedom going on, yes?

no one is forced to join a community.

- IGIT

Sure, you can have many like-minded individuals in any given group. Is that the same as saying they're are all the same-minded? If we're going with the appropriate definition of communal property then none of its members can have any independent thoughts... ever.

 

[IGIT]

Heya IGIT,

Sincerely,

- POTWR

ahoy Paliln!

king of Twitter!

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

Greoric, hi hi!

Sure, you can have many like-minded individuals in any given group.

aye.

and more...people who want to leave the community and join another are free to do so.

Is that the same as saying they're are all the same-minded? If we're going with the appropriate definition of communal property then none of its members can have any independent thoughts... ever.

they might not be the same minded on all things. one member might like mma, where the other prefers to play bocce - but regarding their gardening proclivities? sure, they're same minded...when they no longer feel same minded, there is freedom to seek another community garden more to their liking, or even start their own!

gardening for all.

- IGIT

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

ahoy Paliln!

king of Twitter!

- IGIT

Here here IDGET,

You mean...

The ONE TRUE KING of Twitter, The Beibs.

- Your President

 

[Madmick]

hi Madmick,

i don't know if it is or isn't. alot of Republicans in congress seem to be very hostile to the idea of cutting foreign aid.

i'm wondering if Mr Trump has any idea what foreign aid is for, you know? i have an easy time picturing him having a long heart to heart with members of Congress or his Generals and reversing himself on this one.

- IGIT

I don't care what Trump thinks.

 

[IGIT]

I don't care what Trump thinks.

hello Madmick,

i get that you feel foreign aid isn't necessary. as per this thread, just about everyone agrees with you.

i'm wondering if Mr. Trump will feel, or the GOP members of congress, or perhaps most importantly, how Mr. Kushner will feel about the topic.

- IGIT

 

[Victor Maitland]

Foreign aid is just an ego trip for politicians using tax money .
Like in the UK we are borrowing money to give away thanks to David Cameron and his foreign aid schemes...
we are giving money to China and India , despite them having larger economies....
putting ourselves in a deeper and deeper economic hole to give away borrowed money .

 

[Madmick]

hello Madmick,

i get that you feel foreign aid isn't necessary. as per this thread, just about everyone agrees with you.

i'm wondering if Mr. Trump will feel, or the GOP members of congress, or perhaps most importantly, how Mr. Kushner will feel about the topic.

- IGIT

Of course they don't. "Necessary" is the word you used in the title, but then it wasn't at all how you framed the OP (against the historical backdrop of the Bush family's "compassionate conservatism").

Compassionate, Beneficial, Necessary. Not just distinct words. Distinct concepts.

 

[IGIT]

ahoy Madmick,

"Necessary" is the word you used in the title, but then it wasn't at all how you framed the OP (against the historical backdrop of the Bush family's "compassionate conservatism").

Compassionate, Beneficial, Necessary. Not just distinct words. Distinct concepts.

are compassionate acts necessary if they're also being used to forward US geopolitical interests, which in turn would be beneficial for the US?

what i'm asking is, are you of the belief that when the US government engages in "compassionate acts" via the distribution of foreign aid, that they're doing so purely out of the goodness of its heart?

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

Foreign aid is just an ego trip for politicians using tax money.

hi and well met, Victor,

so if President Bush saved 10 million lives in Africa, you'd describe that as an ego trip?

- IGIT

 

[Rygu]

It isn't America's responsibility to save failing cultures and countries. They should avoid all military interventions too.