Opinion The Mueller Probe: Financial Crimes vs. Collusion - Where Will You Stand?

deviake said:
In my opinion you shouldn't worry about it. I mean think about it "If my side has integrity will yours?" Just have integrity yourself. I'm probably further left than a lot of people on "my side" and I've been in plenty of arguments with liberals on here over my criticisms of the Democratic Party. I know others in real life who are on the left who have similar criticisms as I do of the DP and some liberals. Just try and shoot straight and your actions will speak for themselves regardless of what others do.

The actions should be separate from the "team". Humans are pretty tribal and we all fall into this trap to some degree but if you try to maintain objectivity and check yourself you'll be doing yourself and everyone else a favor. Politics aren't a sporting event though they often operate and feel that way, this is more serious than a debate about the playoffs or something.
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I'm actually not worried about it as I don't have a dog in this fight. But from my vantage point it appears the US caucasian population is in the middle of a civil war with the future of the country being at stake. One side will win and one side will lose. I don't think it would be wise for conservatives to remove their new standard bearer over things everyone in washington in guilty of. It especially isn't wise when you're doing it to appease the other side who refuses to hold the Clintons accountable for anything, has turned a blind eye to Obamas DOJ being used to rig a presidential election, pursued bogus rape charges against Kavanaugh, ignored all the Antifa violence over the past two years, tells their supporters to go out and harass conservatives, ignored the Podesta emails, is pushing for severe online censorship, and on and on.

The opposition has dropped all pretense of following rules, holding themselves accountable, and any semblance of integrity. So tell me again why, other than for moral victories that no one respects, conservatives should be calling for their representatives to resign.
 
cooks1 said:
There are a lot of ways both parties can hold themselves accountable that do not involve impeaching Presidents.

I am sure Trump is guilty of a lot of illegal and unethical shit. The question is whether that illegal and unethical shit is bad enough that he should be removed from office. That bar is pretty fucking high.

Clinton shenaniganed an intern while in office and lied about it. He did not get bounced. I was OK with that decision. Of course you are going to try and weasel out of getting hummers from interns. I don't want presidents getting bounced for that kind of shit. I don't want Trump getting bounced if he paid off Stormy Daniels from campaign funds. If he did that, it should come out and he should be held accountable. But there are ways other than impeachment to do that.

I thought it was a farce when The republicans tried to bounce Clinton. And I have not seen anything come out yet about anything that I would say yes, impeach Trump. Mueller would have to come up with proof of some really crazy shit. I am talking tapes of Trump directly colluding with Russians and shit like that.

What I would not mind though is if Republicans would at least condemn the more egregious Trump behaviors and actions. That would be a good start.
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I don't particularly disagree with any of this. I just think the country is way beyond any civility or good faith political concessions. We're in the midst of a soft civil war right now with the future of the country at stake. If Mueller comes back with some evidence of some wrong doing, prior to the presidency, then I think conservatives would be foolish to call for Trumps resignation without first getting the Dems to a) acknowledge what a treasonous farce this whole investigation has been and b) hold some people accountable.

Otherwise you just have one side playing straight while the other side will continue to break every rule and convention possible while shaping the country in their vision.
 
What if...Pizzagate is real

What if.... Hillary had Seth Rich murdered

What if....Clinton handed uranium over for cash


I've had enough of the what ifs. Have a great day
 
If Trump is guilty of a crime punishable by time in prison then he should absolutely be removed from office.
 
Cubo de Sangre said:
If Trump is guilty of a crime punishable by time in prison then he should absolutely be removed from office.
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But what if he raped a teenager then ate the rape baby after forcing the girl to go full term.

What about that?
 
TheComebackKid said:
I'm actually not worried about it as I don't have a dog in this fight. But from my vantage point it appears the US caucasian population is in the middle of a civil war with the future of the country being at stake. One side will win and one side will lose. I don't think it would be wise for conservatives to remove their new standard bearer over things everyone in washington in guilty of. It especially isn't wise when you're doing it to appease the other side who refuses to hold the Clintons accountable for anything, has turned a blind eye to Obamas DOJ being used to rig a presidential election, pursued bogus rape charges against Kavanaugh, ignored all the Antifa violence over the past two years, tells their supporters to go out and harass conservatives, ignored the Podesta emails, is pushing for severe online censorship, and on and on.

The opposition has dropped all pretense of following rules, holding themselves accountable, and any semblance of integrity. So tell me again why, other than for moral victories that no one respects, conservatives should be calling for their representatives to resign.
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For the sake of simplicity in my response I'll say you do you, I don't care, I know where I stand.

If Trump or whomever has done something criminal and you don't hold them accountable that's on you, just like it is on the other side of the fence. It's not about getting respect or moral victories, it's about integrity, objectivity, and more importantly accountability, regardless of partisanship. You may not care about those, but if you don't then don't expect others to take you seriously, just as you don't with people on the other side. Whether that matters to you or not is up to you.
 
Depends on what it is...’if it’s related to Russia yea he deserves to be punish if they find some stuff from the 80's or some other BS than no
 
The lengthy, deeply reasoned answer will be an essay with the following abstract:

"But Hillary..."
 
Kitafuji said:
I would think that both sides would not want this precedence to take place. Open a probe on one account and have free rein to investigate everything.
Imagine Hillary winning in 2020 (shit will never happen) and the republicans order a probe into her financials. We would have one impeachment after another.
Be careful what you wish for.

BTW - I don't think any of the last several presidents (other than Jimmy Carter) would stand up to such investigations. Anyone before Carter I was to young to know.
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You mean exactly what happened to the Clinton's before?
 
TheComebackKid said:
If Mueller comes back with some evidence of some wrong doing, prior to the presidency, then I think conservatives would be foolish to call for Trumps resignation without first getting the Dems to a) acknowledge what a treasonous farce this whole investigation has been and b) hold some people accountable.
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"If Mueller finds out he's dirty, that shouldn't be acted upon until the dems admit 1) they are treasonous for thinking he might be dirty 2) hold people accountable for suggesting the dirtiness be investigated with due process"

You do realise why people think you are a crackpot or a troll, right?
 
deviake said:
For the sake of simplicity in my response I'll say you do you, I don't care, I know where I stand.

If Trump or whomever has done something criminal and you don't hold them accountable that's on you, just like it is on the other side of the fence. It's not about getting respect or moral victories, it's about integrity, objectivity, and more importantly accountability, regardless of partisanship. You may not care about those, but if you don't then don't expect others to take you seriously, just as you don't with people on the other side. Whether that matters to you or not is up to you.
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Yeah what's the big fuckin deal? Unless you are the rare conservative that is afraid of Pence's theocratic tendencies why not get rid of Trump if it turns out he's dirty?
 
TheComebackKid said:
Democrats don't have morals and values?
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I agree.

If only we better emulated the party of family values and FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY


tenor.gif
 
Kitafuji said:
I would think that both sides would not want this precedence to take place. Open a probe on one account and have free rein to investigate everything.
Imagine Hillary winning in 2020 (shit will never happen) and the republicans order a probe into her financials. We would have one impeachment after another.
Be careful what you wish for.

BTW - I don't think any of the last several presidents (other than Jimmy Carter) would stand up to such investigations. Anyone before Carter I was to young to know.
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I think this scenario would be great for both sides. I would also like to see heavy prison sentences too.
 
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