The main aspect of Muay Thai kicking

[Lucas Coradini]

So as some of you know, Muay Thai in Brazil started before a thai came here to teach the art, so it developed itself in some hybrids between Boxing, Karate and Taekwondo (and what they saw in a japanese cartoon).

It resulted in a form of kickboxing that became world famous after MMA fighters from the Chuteboxe team conquered the japanese MMA scene.

Alright... leaping forward a couple of years (decades) and authentic Muay Thai finally arrived here, by way of fighters visiting Thailand and coming back, or thais coming here to teach seminars.

All that being said a lot of the techniques had to be re-learned, specially the angle kick. If you watch brazilian fighters they nail the correct diagonal angle and intention (trying to go through the target), but fail to extend the hip flexors.

What in my opinion differentiate the Muay Thai kick from the other types seen in karate and taekwondo is leading with an explosive extension of the hips, and not by raising the knee. It also seems to me that this is the only way to apply the weight of your whole body into the kick.

In your opinion what is the main difference between a Muay Thai kick to those of other arts?

 

[shincheckin]

So as some of you know, Muay Thai in Brazil started before a thai came here to teach the art, so it developed itself in some hybrids between Boxing, Karate and Taekwondo (and what they saw in a japanese cartoon).

It resulted in a form of kickboxing that became world famous after MMA fighters from the Chuteboxe team conquered the japanese MMA scene.

Alright... leaping forward a couple of years (decades) and authentic Muay Thai finally arrived here, by way of fighters visiting Thailand and coming back, or thais coming here to teach seminars.

All that being said a lot of the techniques had to be re-learned, specially the angle kick. If you watch brazilian fighters they nail the correct diagonal angle and intention (trying to go through the target), but fail to extend the hip flexors.

What in my opinion differentiate the Muay Thai kick from the other types seen in karate and taekwondo is leading with an explosive extension of the hips, and not by raising the knee. It also seems to me that this is the only way to apply the weight of your whole body into the kick.

In your opinion what is the main difference between a Muay Thai kick to those of other arts?

chambering

snapping vs swinging

instep/lower shin vs shin

retracting the kick (TMA's seem to do it better)

the trajectory of the kick, TMA's seem to go in a much wider arc.

even the TMA's that rotate the hip, seem to do it differently, seems they swing the hip to, rather than through. swinging through, makes it much more difficult to retract the kick.

I would suggest learning both ways if possible.

muay thai kicks to the legs and body, TMA kicks to the head.

 

[aerius]

To me the main difference with the MT kick is the hip leads the leg and pulls it through the target.

What in my opinion differentiate the Muay Thai kick from the other types seen in karate and taekwondo is leading with an explosive extension of the hips, and not by raising the knee. It also seems to me that this is the only way to apply the weight of your whole body into the kick.

I think there's more than one way to do it. Probably the most common way is the one you mentioned where you lead with the hip extension and use it to start the kick and drive it all the way through. The other way I know of is the "Golden Kick" as described by Sylvie in her blog. You can start raising the knee as in a TKD or Karate kick then rotate the base foot around to open up the hips and put the lead hip ahead of the kicking leg so that it can pull on the leg and drive it through the target.
http://8limbs.us/muay-thai-thailand/golden-kick-how-to-improve-your-thai-kick

even the TMA's that rotate the hip, seem to do it differently, seems they swing the hip to, rather than through. swinging through, makes it much more difficult to retract the kick.
I would suggest learning both ways if possible.
muay thai kicks to the legs and body, TMA kicks to the head.

Or combine the "Golden Kick" with a bit of TKD. Has a bit more of a chamber & snap to it than most MT kicks. Also note how Valentina rotates her base leg/foot around when her kicking leg gets to about waist height to open up the hips and drive the kick through the target.

 

[shincheckin]

To me the main difference with the MT kick is the hip leads the leg and pulls it through the target.



I think there's more than one way to do it. Probably the most common way is the one you mentioned where you lead with the hip extension and use it to start the kick and drive it all the way through. The other way I know of is the "Golden Kick" as described by Sylvie in her blog. You can start raising the knee as in a TKD or Karate kick then rotate the base foot around to open up the hips and put the lead hip ahead of the kicking leg so that it can pull on the leg and drive it through the target.
http://8limbs.us/muay-thai-thailand/golden-kick-how-to-improve-your-thai-kick



Or combine the "Golden Kick" with a bit of TKD. Has a bit more of a chamber & snap to it than most MT kicks. Also note how Valentina rotates her base leg/foot around when her kicking leg gets to about waist height to open up the hips and drive the kick through the target.

i have been playing with something similar, i throw a snap type kick, and at the "snap" I pivot. its much faster, and pretty strong as well.

 

[shincheckin]

one more thing worth pointing out, is lucien carbins system

MTG: Something I’ve noticed is that your fighters do not always fully rotate into roundhouse kicks (mawashi geri) like Thais do. Why do you prefer that method?

CARBIN: It depends. We have three types of roundhouse kick: One to prepare for the punch after; one to kick on the arm (like the Thais do); one to change the angle of the kick.

if you read the full interview, you will see that he has basically made his own version of combining kyokushin with MT, as he used to train kyokushin. David Breed is another great example of combining TMA's with MT, although he leans a little more to the TMA side.

 

[j123]

i have been playing with something similar, i throw a snap type kick, and at the "snap" I pivot. its much faster, and pretty strong as well.

The new gym teaches the kick like this, I find it faster, better to feint other kicks, and there's no loss on power.

I'm not a fan of the wide swing anymore

 

[shincheckin]

The new gym teaches the kick like this, I find it faster, better to feint other kicks, and there's no loss on power.

I'm not a fan of the wide swing anymore

its seems most places in the states teach the wide swing, the upward swing is a relatively new thing (for the US) that is catching on. I generally use this way however Bas Rutten makes some great points about the wide swing in his kicking video. I think the wide swing provides maximum power, as well as less likely to catch an elbow.

 

[Lucas Coradini]

@aerius yes! That is exactly the type of hybrid kick I was talking about. I'm particularly not a fan of it, but I see how it can be useful and I did used to kick like that until somebody on this forum told me about leading with the hip thrust.

It is my favorite kick now. Its the most powerful and while the Valentina type of kick can be faster and trickier to defend I think with right tactics the thai kick also can

another argument in favor of the thai kick is the success of thais in kickboxing centering their game around that... Sittichai, Petpanonrung. Petrosyan which isnt thai but have a very thai approach to kicking

Here's Superlek kicking the life out of Pornsanae with it (which also have a fantastic one, to the neck, but I can't remember against who)


the speed of that never ceases to amaze me. I bet he would dominate in kickboxing, too

 

[AndyMaBobs]

To me the main difference with the MT kick is the hip leads the leg and pulls it through the target.



I think there's more than one way to do it. Probably the most common way is the one you mentioned where you lead with the hip extension and use it to start the kick and drive it all the way through. The other way I know of is the "Golden Kick" as described by Sylvie in her blog. You can start raising the knee as in a TKD or Karate kick then rotate the base foot around to open up the hips and put the lead hip ahead of the kicking leg so that it can pull on the leg and drive it through the target.
http://8limbs.us/muay-thai-thailand/golden-kick-how-to-improve-your-thai-kick



Or combine the "Golden Kick" with a bit of TKD. Has a bit more of a chamber & snap to it than most MT kicks. Also note how Valentina rotates her base leg/foot around when her kicking leg gets to about waist height to open up the hips and drive the kick through the target.

That was how I was taught to kick - quite an old school style where the foot lifts before the twist. It depends from gym to gym because muay thai doesn't have a structure in the same way karate does - but I think that big swing into the kick that Lucas describes is a more modern thing.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

one more thing worth pointing out, is lucien carbins system

MTG: Something I’ve noticed is that your fighters do not always fully rotate into roundhouse kicks (mawashi geri) like Thais do. Why do you prefer that method?

CARBIN: It depends. We have three types of roundhouse kick: One to prepare for the punch after; one to kick on the arm (like the Thais do); one to change the angle of the kick.

if you read the full interview, you will see that he has basically made his own version of combining kyokushin with MT, as he used to train kyokushin. David Breed is another great example of combining TMA's with MT, although he leans a little more to the TMA side.

I'm very pleased that people have taken stuff away from my interview.

https://muay-thai-guy.com/lucien-carbin.html

 

[shincheckin]

I'm very pleased that people have taken stuff away from my interview.

https://muay-thai-guy.com/lucien-carbin.html

im always yapping about how i like Kyokushin, Carbin is a great example of combining it with MT.

 

[Tahm Kench]

American Style or general Karate Kicks Chamber the Knee.

Especially when it comes to American Style Kickboxing kicks are generally used as jabbing weapons, lead roundhouse, side kick etccc which in turns sets up the hands.

Where as in Thai everyone is designed around powerful kicking. The stance, using the hands to set up the kicks.

The Thais use a full body pivot, hip turned over. I was also learned to slice downwards on an angle while engaging below the knee during the pivot to gain maximum felocity.

 

[shincheckin]

Especially when it comes to American Style Kickboxing kicks are generally used as jabbing weapons, lead roundhouse, side kick etccc which in turns sets up the hands.

Where as in Thai everyone is designed around powerful kicking. The stance, using the hands to set up the kicks.

great points