The kickfighting establishment is rotten to the core

[AbeRudder]

By that arguement MMA isn't a sport either. I could honestly give a fuck, and keep in mind Thais don't exceed 70kg. 70kg already has the best 70kg Thai, so really you only have one division in Glory that doesnt, even though they brought Pet in, and you can argue K-1 has one division that doesn't while their other division has Kaew who may or may not be the best at that weight but you can at least make an argument for him. You're really grasping for straws here.

The UFC has a large majority of the best mma fighters under their roster, that includes unmarketable non english speaking boring fighters. There are only a handful of top 10 fighters not under the UFC roster. There are Jake Shields type cases but he was at least given a shot in the UFC and was cut after some uninspiring performances. Not to say that the UFC hasn't made money moves before but how many top 10 fighters were denied shots in the UFC simply due to the fact that they were unmarketable? Ben Askren? Bear in mind that he earns a considerable salary in One FC.

K1 has a number of weight classes that are perfect for thais but they'll instead they'll get someone like Chris Mauceri or Yun Qi. Kaew was only given the shot because he was fighting in japanese muay thai promotions and Gonnapar was given the shot because Kaew pulled out of a fight. Marketability is the obvious reason for this.....

 

[Tayski]

The UFC has a large majority of the best mma fighters under their roster, that includes unmarketable non english speaking boring fighters. There are only a handful of top 10 fighters not under the UFC roster. There are Jake Shields type cases but he was at least given a shot in the UFC and was cut after some uninspiring performances. Not to say that the UFC hasn't made money moves before but how many top 10 fighters were denied shots in the UFC simply due to the fact that they were unmarketable? Ben Askren? Bear in mind that he earns a considerable salary in One FC.

K1 has a number of weight classes that are perfect for thais but they'll instead they'll get someone like Chris Mauceri or Yun Qi. Kaew was only given the shot because he was fighting in japanese muay thai promotions and Gonnapar was given the shot because Kaew pulled out of a fight. Marketability is the obvious reason for this.....

Let's comparable what's comparable. How long has the UFC been around compared to promotions like Glory or the reborn K-1? How worthy a business is the UFC compared to those Kickboxing promotions in terms of turnover and fundings?

And finally, what proportion of fighters from Asia, Russia and Africa does the UFC have in their roster compared to fighters from North America, South America and Europe?

 

[AbeRudder]

Let's comparable what's comparable. How long has the UFC been around compared to promotions like Glory or the reborn K-1? How worthy a business is the UFC compared to those Kickboxing promotions in terms of turnover and fundings?

And finally, what proportion of fighters from Asia, Russia and Africa does the UFC have in their roster compared to fighters from North America, South America and Europe?

I agree that the UFC and Glory or K1 are completely different cases, I didn't even make the comparison initially that was the other posters. But it should be noted that the UFC signed plenty of brazilian fighters when they were in their weakest financial period, before they had an access to the brazillian market.

There are a good number of Russian fighters on the UFC roster (mostly from dagestan), the UFC have signed a lot of japanese fighters in the past but only a few of them have performed well. Same with the chinese fighters, they even had their own TUF season. The US and Brazil typically produce the best fighters so its hardly surprising that they dominate the roster.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

By that arguement MMA isn't a sport either.

No sporting league will ever perfectly live up to the ideals I set out, and the UFC certainly hasn't. However, the UFC has certainly done far more to live up to this ideal than any kickboxing promotion that I know of, they at least historically have tried to have all the best fighters under one umbrella. No institution will ever perfectly live up to their ideals, doesn't mean that the ideals aren't correct.

I could use the same argument against you and ask why a promotion like Thai Fight which is Thai doesn't sign Japanese fighters and keep the number of Japanese down.

You must not follow Thai Fight or the Thailand thread very closely. No one who knows anything about Thai Fight sees it as a legitimate sporting promotion. It is based almost entirely on appealing to Thai nationalistic pride.

But it would still be incorrect to say that Thai Fight keeps the number of foreigners (be they Japanese or anyone else) down. Just about every fight on a Thai fight card features at least one foreigner, the whole premise is foreigner vs thai. Thai Fight gives way more opportunities to foreigners than just about any other major Thai promotion, unless you count MAX, and way more than kickboxing promoters give to Thais. But most of the foreigners who are in there have no business being there and have been brought in to get trounced.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

The UFC has a large majority of the best mma fighters under their roster, that includes unmarketable non english speaking boring fighters. There are only a handful of top 10 fighters not under the UFC roster. There are Jake Shields type cases but he was at least given a shot in the UFC and was cut after some uninspiring performances. Not to say that the UFC hasn't made money moves before but how many top 10 fighters were denied shots in the UFC simply due to the fact that they were unmarketable? Ben Askren? Bear in mind that he earns a considerable salary in One FC.

K1 has a number of weight classes that are perfect for thais but they'll instead they'll get someone like Chris Mauceri or Yun Qi. Kaew was only given the shot because he was fighting in japanese muay thai promotions and Gonnapar was given the shot because Kaew pulled out of a fight. Marketability is the obvious reason for this.....

Obvious post is obvious, except to everyone on this subforum.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Hell, even when Glory does get something right and sign good Thais, they still manage to get it all wrong. They sign the Pinto brothers, as well.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Hell, even when Glory does get something right and sign good Thais, they still manage to get it all wrong. They sign the Pinto brothers, as well.

Even the Thai promoters are guilty of pushing these guys over more legitimate guys. Again that comes down to promotion and bringing in eyes based on marketability.

 

[Tayski]

But it should be noted that the UFC signed plenty of brazilian fighters when they were in their weakest financial period, before they had an access to the brazillian market.

They did so because it made sense financially and logistically considering Brazil was already at an advanced stage for MMA with lots of gyms and fighters. It's not like they took a risk there. They signed entertaining fighters who were familiar with the sport and that they didn't have to pay too much, and who were in the same time zone and relatively easy to make travel.

There are a good number of Russian fighters on the UFC roster (mostly from dagestan), the UFC have signed a lot of japanese fighters in the past but only a few of them have performed well. Same with the chinese fighters, they even had their own TUF season. The US and Brazil typically produce the best fighters so its hardly surprising that they dominate the roster.

They only started signing a good amount of Russian and Asian fighters in the last 2-3 years or so. If you remember the Tito Ortiz / Chuck Liddell era there wasn't many Russians or Asians if at all, and the organisation had been running for quite a few years already then.

But it would still be incorrect to say that Thai Fight keeps the number of foreigners (be they Japanese or anyone else) down. Just about every fight on a Thai fight card features at least one foreigner, the whole premise is foreigner vs thai. Thai Fight gives way more opportunities to foreigners than just about any other major Thai promotion, unless you count MAX, and way more than kickboxing promoters give to Thais. But most of the foreigners who are in there have no business being there and have been brought in to get trounced.

It's exactly the same argument you're making when saying Thai's don't get signed by Kickboxing promotions. I don't see Japanese fighters on Thai Fight's roster, is that because they're anti Japanese or scared they might get embarrassed? (I don't actually think this but simply apply your same logic)

 

[Kanka]

Sittichai himself said there are only a few thais right now that he thinks would be succesful in kickboxing.

I imagine Littewada, Yodpnomrung*, Kongsak, Sangmanee and Yodwicha would do well. Who else?

 

[Kanka]

And why don't all the raja and lumpinee promotions sign more 75+ kg europeans since they are the best in those weight classes? With Jtr logic it's discrimination bla bla bla.

Euro fans don't care about anything under 65 kg. Thai gamblers don't really care about anything under 65 kg. Simple as that

 

[oyvindt]

pinto himself said his target audience are young female fans who wouldn't even go to a mt event....at least he knows why he's there...his entire image is a calculated pr more.

 

[DastardlyMass]

Sittichai himself said there are only a few thais right now that he thinks would be succesful in kickboxing.

I imagine Littewada, Petpanomrung, Kongsak, Sangmanee and Yodwicha would do well. Who else?

I

ptt,tengnueng,petchboonchu,nong-0,thanonchai,saeksan,superlek,thaksinlek and a handful of others but this is just right off the top of my head of guys i at least know have amateur boxing experience to go with muaythai since many here do not believe a guy without specific kb or boxing training can succeed in kb

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Even the Thai promoters are guilty of pushing these guys over more legitimate guys. Again that comes down to promotion and bringing in eyes based on marketability.

Yes, international ones like Yokkao and Thai Fight which I have never praised or gone to bat for. In fact, it is exactly for reasons like that that I denigrate people for fawning over international muay thai promotional events, because almost none of them constitute real sport.

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

It's exactly the same argument you're making when saying Thai's don't get signed by Kickboxing promotions. I don't see Japanese fighters on Thai Fight's roster, is that because they're anti Japanese or scared they might get embarrassed? (I don't actually think this but simply apply your same logic)

I have no idea what you are getting at. Thai fight is anti Japanese, although they do have had Japanese fighters on their roster, (they're anti foreign in general) and worried about being embarrassed, from the point of view that they want the Thai representatives to crush the foreigners, and match the fights accordingly. But I never defended Thai Fight or held it up as being superior to the way kickboxing promotions do things. If anything it has some of the same problems.

 

[Tayski]

And why don't all the raja and lumpinee promotions sign more 75+ kg europeans since they are the best in those weight classes? With Jtr logic it's discrimination bla bla bla.

Euro fans don't care about anything under 65 kg. Thai gamblers don't really care about anything under 65 kg. Simple as that

Nailed it.

 

[Tayski]

pinto himself said his target audience are young female fans who wouldn't even go to a mt event....at least he knows why he's there...his entire image is a calculated pr more.

Where did he say that? I'd like to watch it

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

And why don't all the raja and lumpinee promotions sign more 75+ kg europeans since they are the best in those weight classes? With Jtr logic it's discrimination bla bla bla.

They don't sign hardly anyone at those weights. Pretty much nobody who fights at or above 67kgs gets regular play in the major stadiums, regardless of whether they're Thai or not. That's how it should be. The reason I like the stadiums is because they are generally representative of the highest calibre fights out there, regardless of weight or where you are from or whatever. You could put on at most a handful of fights at 75kgs and above that would be ok. Why would I want to see what is supposed to be representative of the best muay thai fighters in the world be polluted by, what would be the equivalent of, a women's bantamweight division?

 

[jtwarwagon4life]

Sittichai himself said there are only a few thais right now that he thinks would be succesful in kickboxing.

There seems to be a whole lot of kickboxing exceptionalism going on here. Especially the idea that the Sittichai's and Buakaw's of the world, and whichever other Thais kickbox successfully, are somehow categorically different and can do things which your run of the mill stadium fighter could never hope to. Ignoring the fact that these guys were all stadium fighters themselves once and often unremarkable ones. Often this logic is pushed to the point of absurdity and this is the result:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/buakaw-was-an-anomaly.3350525/

 

[oyvindt]

Where did he say that? I'd like to watch it

he was fighting with a fan on his facebook last year. they accused him to be on thai fight just because he attracts fangirls and pretty much said he knew and there was nothing wrong bringing that kind of audience to an event that otherwise wouldn't. it was a loooong discussion but i don't remember much else.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Thai Fight is mostly about Thais crushing foreign cans. It is the format that sells.

Kickboxing is reluctant on putting too many Thais on a card (I don't think that it is especially against Thais, they also wouldn t want to many Russians or Arabs or Latinos, etc.).

MMA tends to give good fights to marketable mediocre fighters (best example the Diaz Bros) and refuse them to good fighters that are not popular for reason xyz.

GUESS WHAT : it's a fuckin promotion. Prized fighting was never about some noble chivalry in combat or about "the love for the art". It's about selling tickets.

Anyone who doesn't understand that is in for some disappointment, like the TS.

Accept sport promotions for what they are and move on.


IMO.