The Godfather vs. The Godfather: Part II

[ufcfan4]

It's a tough call. I think of the question as like asking what's better- Terminator or Terminator II, Alien or Aliens. That is, the movies are so good, so close in overall quality, it's almost irrelevant ranking one above the other.

That said, I personally think Godfather Part II is probably the slightly better film because the DeNiro young Vito stuff is ultra-fucking high level and so well complements the main Michael//Roth/Pentangeli/Fredo betrayal story.

What always struck me about II is that Pentangeli was supposed to be Clemenza but Castellano didn't come back. You'd think that would suck since Clemenza was a great character and Castellano was awesome, but, instead, Gazzo knocks it out of the park and Pentangeli is one of the most memorable supporting characters in the series.

Love this scene.



And the festa scene where DeNiro lowballs Fanucci and then takes him out is probably my single favorite scene in all three of those movies- and that's saying something considering how many iconic scenes are in the first two.

But The Godfather is incredible in its own right. Brando's performance. Caan, Duvall, Pacino, Cazale, Sterling Hayden everybody delivers.

 

[ufcfan4]

Part III is a pretty good movie in my opinion- just suffers from attempting to stand in the presence of giants. Among the things I really enjoyed about III:

The Immobiliare/Church trying to screw Michael over storyline- thought it was an interesting angle and liked how they retconned the suspicious short tenure of the Pope to fit into the storyline.

Garcia- damn good performance that stood out. Great first scene with him confronting Joey Zasa at Michael's party.

Mantegna- I have been treated, THIS DAY, with no respect. The scene where Zasa gets taken out as well. "Here's my raffle ticket. This is what I think of you and your raffle ticket" (keys the shit out of the car)

Eli Wallach as Altobello- always liked the scene where he recruits Mosca, the hit man in Italy. Crazy shit that the guy would cause them so much problems. Why the hell didn't they take him out as soon as they knew he arranged the helicopter hit.

Al Neri being a boss.

Calo returning.

But of course there are many drawbacks. Mary/Vincent romance is creepy given that they are first cousins but also very wooden and unconvincing. Coppola was very miscast. The film also lacks the epic quality of the original two.

And not paying whatever Robert DuVall wanted to get Hagen into the movie was shameful. Screw that. I liked DuVall's logic, too...paraphrased, "The only reason any one would make the movie after so much time had passed was to make money. So if I was going to do it, I was going to do it for the money as well."

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

How can you not like Willi Cicci and Frankie Five Angels?

I watched it once about 30 years ago. For all I know they were the highlight of the film.

 

[Sir Galahad]

The original is the best.

 

[IndyCovaHart]

Both are great movies but they aren't like The Dark Knight or anything like that.

 

[Takes_Two_To_Tango]

ttt for more votes

 

[defjaam]

Does anyone have an interpretation for the part where Vito (De Niro in GF II) gives Don Vanucci only half of the money, few moments before the kills him? Why was he messing with him when he planned to kill him anyway?

 

[raty tat tat]

I prefer Godfather 1 over 2 but 2 is still great.

 

[raty tat tat]

They also have a great Taco Pizza.

 

[waiguoren]

Coppola himself renounced both "Part 2" and "Part 3".

As far as I'm concerned there is only one Godfather film: The Godfather (1972). It's still the best film I've seen.

 

[waiguoren]

The Godfather is the story of Michael Corleone. By the time The Godfather (1972) ends, we have seen everything we need to know about Michael's story. The so-called "Part II" adds nothing.

 

[ufcfan4]

Does anyone have an interpretation for the part where Vito (De Niro in GF II) gives Don Vanucci only half of the money, few moments before the kills him? Why was he messing with him when he planned to kill him anyway?

It's a very slick moment on Vito's part. He is already pretty convinced that Fanucci is a paper tiger who intimidates the neighborhood but doesn't actually wield nearly as much functional power as many think. He banks on the notion that he can offer him significantly less than he demands and that Fanucci will, to paraphrase Conor McGregor, "do nuttin'."

Vito's suspicions are absolutely confirmed, as Fanucci not only doesn't threaten his life, raise a ruckus, demand the rest or else, or something of the like, but instead accepts it, actually compliments Vito and offers that he come see him to get a job. Vito basically used the ploy to verify that Fanucci was not as menacing/dangerous as he was purported to be. Emboldened by this, he takes him down.

 

[Thrawn33]

Does anyone have an interpretation for the part where Vito (De Niro in GF II) gives Don Vanucci only half of the money, few moments before the kills him? Why was he messing with him when he planned to kill him anyway?

Edit: above poster said it better

 

[HARRISON_3]

There are very few sequels which surpass the original.

This is one of those occasions.

 

[waiguoren]

It's a very slick moment on Vito's part. He is already pretty convinced that Fanucci is a paper tiger who intimidates the neighborhood but doesn't actually wield nearly as much functional power as many think. He banks on the notion that he can offer him significantly less than he demands and that Fanucci will, to paraphrase Conor McGregor, "do nuttin'."

Vito's suspicions are absolutely confirmed, as Fanucci not only doesn't threaten his life, raise a ruckus, demand the rest or else, or something of the like, but instead accepts it, actually compliments Vito and offers that he come see him to get a job. Vito basically used the ploy to verify that Fanucci was not as menacing/dangerous as he was purported to be. Emboldened by this, he takes him down.

The young Vito scenes are part of the original book, unlike the rest of "Part II". They are the only redeeming part of the movie imo. I wonder if The Godfather (1972) would be even more epic if those "early Vito" scenes had been included.

 

[ufcfan4]

The young Vito scenes are part of the original book, unlike the rest of "Part II". They are the only redeeming part of the movie imo. I wonder if The Godfather (1972) would be even more epic if those "early Vito" scenes had been included.

I think the DeNiro scenes are terrific and really add to Part II immeasurably.

I am a bit surprised you're so critical of the Michael/Roth/Pentangeli/Fredo angle. I really think that's very well executed too.

I understand your point about Michael's downfall seeming a bit redundant after the first one already established his transformation from legitimate war hero/college boy to mafia don, but Godfather II really shows him go further down the path to the point where it truly destroys his closest relationships and robs him of his soul.

Strasberg as Hyman Roth delivered in every one of his scenes. That sequence where he uses the example of Moe Green to illustrate why Michael has no right to ask him about who ordered the hit on Pentangeli- absolutely terrific acting. Gazzo as Pentangeli- another epic supporting performance.

 

[defjaam]

It's a very slick moment on Vito's part. He is already pretty convinced that Fanucci is a paper tiger who intimidates the neighborhood but doesn't actually wield nearly as much functional power as many think. He banks on the notion that he can offer him significantly less than he demands and that Fanucci will, to paraphrase Conor McGregor, "do nuttin'."

Vito's suspicions are absolutely confirmed, as Fanucci not only doesn't threaten his life, raise a ruckus, demand the rest or else, or something of the like, but instead accepts it, actually compliments Vito and offers that he come see him to get a job. Vito basically used the ploy to verify that Fanucci was not as menacing/dangerous as he was purported to be. Emboldened by this, he takes him down.

Nice one, thanks.
But I assume he would have still killed him, even if Fanucci was all that he pretented to be.

I sort of had Dana White in mind as Fanucci, when you mentioned McGregor, LOL.

 

[waiguoren]

I understand your point about Michael's downfall seeming a bit redundant after the first one already established his transformation from legitimate war hero/college boy to mafia don, but Godfather II really shows him go further down the path to the point where it truly destroys his closest relationships and robs him of his soul.

The final scene in The Godfather told us everything we needed to know about Michael's future. Nothing surprising or interesting happens involving Michael in "Part II".

 

[Holic]

The answer is part 1. 2 was great but 1 is damn near perfect.

On a related note, I just watched the Irishman and jesus christ, the magic is gone. Scorsese can no longer direct/edit, De Niro can no longer act. Pacino is desperately searching for some scenery to chew which would be fine if there actually was some, and Pesci and Keitel are still great but they aren't given much screentime. The movie drags on for fucking ever and it's the most basic mob plot in the world. And yeah it was based on a true story, but so was Goodfellas and that movie actually had some flavor.

Also my cousin's abusive ex-husband is in it. He plays "Colombo Son #1"
Oh yeah and my other cousin played Al Nieri in all 3 Godfathers but he's dead now. Got hit by a bus. Look it up.

 

[Prex32]

compared to 2, the first one is really primitive. the falling in love part was a bit cringe.
some scenes during the movie didn't make sense at all.
like the guy is shot directly in the forehead (after being shot in the throat) and is still somehow alive/giving noises and fighting for his life?
brando jumping off his stool despite being old as fvck?
the other guy who was almost beat to death by the brother of his wife is smart enough to beat her up again, knowing he'd probably be killed this time?
the fight scenes looked also very amateurish.
so it's a cool movie, but not perfect.
the only better scene is imo brandos first speech in the opening, when the guy disrespects him.