The funny thing about beliefs

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by jack36767, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. jack36767 Brown Belt

    jack36767
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    A thread on reddit with people losing their minds had me musing. I almost wrote a Danaher like soliloquy. But instead I shall be laconic

    It will never cease to amaze me the amount of mental gymnastics, pedantics, and squawking... "some" bjj people will go through to justify not strength training, pushing themselves, and practicing takedowns
     
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  2. Was at Pride GP 2000 Brown Belt

    Was at Pride GP 2000
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    I'm just lazy that's why I don't do any of that shit. Jiu jitsu is fun and easy. Weight training is hard and boring.
     
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  3. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    I think resistance training to keep your body healthy and mobile is more important than strength training. Strength training is something you can indulge in after you're completely prehabbed and rehabbed. And I think it should be treated as a supplementary activity instead of squeezing your BJJ time with a full powerlifting or bodybuilding 4-6 days / week lifiting program.

    Takedowns should be essential. I would recommend someone take judo or wrestling 2-3 days / week before I told them to lift weights for strength.

    I stopped pushing myself for awhile and my technique skyrocketed tremendously, but now I'm in a plateau that can only be busted by really going hard again.
     
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  4. rmongler Brown Belt

    rmongler
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    Generally speaking, the best exercises for performance are also the best exercises for building resiliency and or recovery; it's just a question of loading.
     
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  5. Russky Blue Belt

    Russky
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    It would be called judo if they did.
     
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  6. smfg White Belt

    smfg
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    "Resistance training to keep your body healthy and mobile" IS strength training. If you want to increase your body's ability to generate force (which is then multiplied by technique/leverage/jiu-jitsu), strength training is the key to achieving this.

    Sure, BJJ training takes precedence if it is your primary goal, but 3 days a week (and lots of food and sleep) is all that is really required for a solid strength training regime, and the same basic movements that powerlifters do are the ones that should be used to build whole body strength. As for body building, strength is a side effect of that style of training.
     
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  7. winterbike Blue Belt

    winterbike
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    Given how most judo guys I know are limping by the age of 30, and fat by 40, I look elsewhere for advice on how to stay healthy and keep training longer.
     
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  8. TakadaDojoKeith Purple Belt

    TakadaDojoKeith
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    Yeah, I've noticed that's true of subset of jiu-jitsu people. Since I'm not a BJJ guy, I've wondered why they can't just say they don't dig those things and leave it at that. I don't see the need to justify it.
     
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  9. Dogstarman Old man jiu jitsu

    Dogstarman
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    I used to lift and do takedowns. I'm in my 40s now. If I want to keep training I don't do that shit anymore. I do a kettlebell workout twice a week. I start on my ass too.
     
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  10. yetanother Purple Belt

    yetanother
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    People on reddit believe a lot of strange stuff like that you don't get stronger doing hard training (because it's not part of an S&C session) and that steroids only allow you to train more and it's not like it's easy to gain muscle while on them.
     
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  11. jack36767 Brown Belt

    jack36767
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    Of all the reasons not to do takedowns, this is the weakest. Bjj competitors that train hard have issues. Rickson most famously but all the Gracie's have nagging injuries. Bjj by itself is not "safer" and less hard on the body if trained just as hard.

    And the same principles that apply to training smart especially if older for bjj apply equally to wrestling/judo..
     
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  12. jack36767 Brown Belt

    jack36767
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    Yes but you also aren't terrified of being on your feet and making excuses, you have a reason not an excuse
     
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  13. jack36767 Brown Belt

    jack36767
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    Yeah for sure,the most fascinating thing to me is the hipster type with postmodernist beliefs or tendencies, and the shock and cognitive dissonance that occurs when a lot of those ideas get shattered by the cold stark reality of training

    And I love the blue/purple hobbyist belts commenting on how to "properly" train at a high level
     
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  14. jack36767 Brown Belt

    jack36767
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    Because admitting so for a lot of them is admitting they're scared, or admitting that a big part of it is not wanting to be made a white belt again or "lose" to the wrestler
     
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  15. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    It really is age depending... I'm 37 right now, believe is not the same as being 30... While stand up has never been my forte, every single wrestling session we have, something goes wrong... I hate my self for no taking stand up grappling more serous when I was younger, but it really fucks me up... I try to get my students not to do the same mistake though...
     
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  16. RJ Green Black Belt

    RJ Green
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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
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  17. Balto Silver Belt

    Balto
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    It takes more mental gymnastics to justify that takedowns are a necessary part of BJJ than the other way around. And this is coming from a guy who loves takedowns. The reality is that they are just not strictly necessary to apply BJJ in a lot of different circumstances, even at the highest level.

    In competition you can use them as part of your strategy. But you can also exclude them completely from your game and still win black belt world titles. So they aren't strictly necessary there.

    For self-defense, you can also do just fine with slim to none. Standing RNC is one of BJJ's most practical weapons, and it doesn't require conventional takedown knowledge. Same with many other standing chokes and controls. And if you do end up on bottom because you can't get to one of those from standing, it isn't exactly the death sentence it's made out to be. Plenty of old school vale tudo matches were won from the guard.

    Using BJJ in modern MMA definitely requires them. But in other cases, the truth is they really are skippable without hurting your efficiency much (if at all). I am always going to be interested in them because I just think they're fun period. But ultimately it's me who has to be the one to make the abstract arguments in their favor because the practical reality is they just aren't needed to make BJJ work in most cases.
     
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  18. Balto Silver Belt

    Balto
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    Thing is I've been around BJJ/Wrestling/Judo guys at the top level over the years. And for whatever reason, the top level BJJ guys last way longer than the top level Wrestling/Judo guys. I don't know exactly why that is, but it's been a pretty consistent observation.

    I got back from a wrestling camp with some pretty high level guys not too long ago. One of my black belt buddies is a wrestler and runs it. Lots of current D2 and D1 guys in attendance. About a half a dozen guys placing in the national tournament. Two Olympians in Freestyle. Overall a pretty high level.

    Only two guys (well three but the third guy got injured badly the first day and couldn't do the rest of the week) over 30 were still able to wrestle live in practice. This is out of maybe two dozen or so total. The rest just couldn't handle it anymore.

    I practiced with them every day so I felt the intensity level of the practices and the live wrestling. And the truth is the top competitive BJJ guys train with the same intensity. They just last longer though because the way a BJJ match unfolds seems to be easier on the body than the way a wrestling match does.

    Theoretically it's nice to say "oh if you train Wrestling and Judo smart you will last just as long as BJJ." But the empirical evidence just hasn't been there to back that up in my experience.
     
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  19. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    its just a matter of physics IMO, while stand up is not my forte, it certanly makes logic that 2 bodies collapsing and violent going from stand up to the ground, that be cause of a throw, level change or whatever, is way more body demanding that grappling on the ground, even at really high intensity.

    You can see guys rolling at high peace even at 50 and over, you will hardly see 2 guys wrestling at high intensity at that age, the human body just sucks balls.
     
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  20. Balto Silver Belt

    Balto
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    Yeah one of the guys there was a former D2 national champ about five years ago and was teaching his upper body throw combinations that he was known for. It's basically like a bunch of suplexes.

    All the guys 30+ were just like hell no lol. Not even going to drill that.

    I mean I know that some older guys in BJJ will take that approach to crazier inverted stuff, but this was like they didn't even want to get on the mat while this was going on. Neither did I.

    End of the day there's just a big difference between bending your body up like a yoga position and skying people over your head into the mat repeatedly.
     
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