The Cost of Pro-Life: US now has (by far) highest maternal death rate in developed world

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I suppose you have a point so let me rephrase it. Given her decision making power the woman is always more responsible for the outcome of the pregnancy, even if in some cases the man has more reasons to avoid the pregnancy, because he isn't the one making the decision.

I was only referring to who has the responsibility to avoid the pregnancy. IMO, they have an equal responsibility for avoiding pregnancy. The woman's reasons aren't the same as the man's but that doesn't mean that the man has no reasons or that his reasons are any less grave.

Frankly, if not for people trying to prevent it, a woman could just roll into an abortion clinic and get it done or pick up a Plan B and move on with her life.

Instead, we have a bunch of people who claim that the woman has all this "responsibility" but when it's suggested to make it easier to get the abortion, they don't want to agree to that. So is it really that the woman has more responsibility to avoid pregnancy or is it that people want women to treat getting pregnant more seriously and that abortions and Plan B's allow women to be too cavalier about it. The anti-abortion people want women to "act" responsibility about sex and so they fight against things that reduce the need for women to worry about pregnancy.

Back to my hypo's.

A guy makes $25k/yr. The womanis self-employed and makes $90k/yr. Even the smallest amount of child support will leave him struggling and unable to ever improve his situation. The woman will be fine with or without child support. Which one has a greater responsibility to avoid an unwanted pregnancy?
 
I was only referring to who has the responsibility to avoid the pregnancy. IMO, they have an equal responsibility for avoiding pregnancy. The woman's reasons aren't the same as the man's but that doesn't mean that the man has no reasons or that his reasons are any less grave.

Frankly, if not for people trying to prevent it, a woman could just roll into an abortion clinic and get it done or pick up a Plan B and move on with her life.

Instead, we have a bunch of people who claim that the woman has all this "responsibility" but when it's suggested to make it easier to get the abortion, they don't want to agree to that. So is it really that the woman has more responsibility to avoid pregnancy or is it that people want women to treat getting pregnant more seriously and that abortions and Plan B's allow women to be too cavalier about it. The anti-abortion people want women to "act" responsibility about sex and so they fight against things that reduce the need for women to worry about pregnancy.
Well I'm not anti-abortion so that doesn't apply to me. I believe in making abortions and birth control more accessible.
Back to my hypo's.

A guy makes $25k/yr. The womanis self-employed and makes $90k/yr. Even the smallest amount of child support will leave him struggling and unable to ever improve his situation. The woman will be fine with or without child support. Which one has a greater responsibility to avoid an unwanted pregnancy?
I already addressed that, reread what I said. Regardless of the specific personal reasons the woman faces a higher health risk and ultimately makes the decision on whether or not to carry so regardless of who gets fucked over, whether its her, the man or the kid, I put more culpability on the woman because it was in her hands.
 
Well I'm not anti-abortion so that doesn't apply to me. I believe in making abortions and birth control more accessible.

I already addressed that, reread what I said. Regardless of the specific personal reasons the woman faces a higher health risk and ultimately makes the decision on whether or not to carry so regardless of who gets fucked over, whether its her, the man or the kid, I put more culpability on the woman because it was in her hands.

I know you're not anti-abortion. The woman has the higher health risk and makes the decision but that doesn't maker her responsibility less than his. It makes her responsibility different from his. And that's my primary point, that differences in responsibilities doesn't mean that they don't have equal individual responsibility.

People are discussing it in a male vs. female tone when there's no overlap at all. The woman has a responsibility to avoid pregnancies that she doesn't want. The man has the same responsibility to avoid pregnancies that he doesn't want.

In a simple yes/no question - Are men responsible for avoiding pregnancies that they don't want?
 
1. From the article:

Texas, for example, saw its maternal mortality rate more than double between 2010 and 2014, as the state closed more than half of its abortion clinics and severely cut funding for Planned Parenthood. Thanks to Texas and a few other states with strong “pro-life” lobbies, mostly in the south, the US now bears the ghastly distinction of having the highest maternal mortality rate of all the world’s wealthy democracies.
Did you download the article? It's not just wealthy democracies.
Puerto Rico(USA lite), China and Saudi Arabia are now ahead of the USA.


Haiti is doing badly at 500+! Don't have children in the same place you shit!
 
In a simple yes/no question - Are men responsible for avoiding pregnancies that they don't want?
Yes but given his lack of control over the pregnancies I tend to put more blame on the woman for whatever complications arise from the pregnancies.
 
Yes but given his lack of control over the pregnancies I tend to put more blame on the woman for whatever complications arise from the pregnancies.

I don't particularly care about after the pregnancy. I'm focused on whether or not men have the same responsibility to avoid pregnancies as women. Once she's pregnant, both people have to deal with the consequences that come from it. She gets to make the physical choices, he has to live with her choices. They both sign up for that arrangement.
 
I don't particularly care about after the pregnancy. I'm focused on whether or not men have the same responsibility to avoid pregnancies as women. Once she's pregnant, both people have to deal with the consequences that come from it. She gets to make the physical choices, he has to live with her choices. They both sign up for that arrangement.
I don't think they do.
 
So it was more her responsibility to avoid the situation?

Which situation?

The pregnancy, yes.

The ass hole that went shit head because he couldn't handle the situation once she was pregnant, no. That's all on him.
 
Did you download the article? It's not just wealthy democracies.
Puerto Rico(USA lite), China and Saudi Arabia are now ahead of the USA.


Haiti is doing badly at 500+! Don't have children in the same place you shit!

Well in Saudi Arabia tou can't go to the doctor without a man
 
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