The Cost of Pro-Life: US now has (by far) highest maternal death rate in developed world

[HomerThompson]

The article seems to think its about pro-life, but the evidence doesn't support it.
Do you think that abortion clinics are more available in Iran, where its essentially illegal, than the US?
Because our maternal death rate has just surpassed theirs.

Do you think comparing Iran and the US on this metric is actually useful in anyway?

Do you think that the decrease in services for women in the US has caused this incline in maternal deaths?

Do you think Pro-Life politicians and policies are responsible for the secondary effects of cutting all of that funding for women's services?

 

[Gandhi]

I think the Ireland example does make a cogent point.

Is it access to abortion or access to healthcare in general that is the issue with regard to maternal death?

 

[sub_thug]

Look at clinic locations, service availability, and funding. Stop focusing on just the abortion aspect. This is a secondary consequences issue.

Yeah, clinic access and funding are issues. However, as @Anung Un Rama pointed out:

NPR and ProPublica teamed up for a six-month long investigation on maternal mortality in the U.S. Among our key findings:

• More American women are dying of pregnancy-related complications than any other developed country. Only in the U.S. has the rate of women who die been rising.
• There's a hodgepodge of hospital protocols for dealing with potentially fatal complications, allowing for treatable complications to become lethal.
• Hospitals — including those with intensive care units for newborns — can be woefully unprepared for a maternal emergency.
• Federal and state funding show only 6 percent of block grants for "maternal and child health" actually go to the health of mothers.
• In the U.S, some doctors entering the growing specialty of maternal-fetal medicine were able to complete that training without ever spending time in a labor-delivery unit.

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/12/5280...ate-of-maternal-deaths-in-the-developed-world

This is about American medicine not adopting protocols that aid in life-saving measures for the mother, underdeveloped NICU units with a lack of properly-trained personnel, and an issue where state and federal resources don't make it to the patients. It's not about pro-lifers getting their way. This is a symptom of a deficit in American medicine. I think it's also worth noting that Americans are getting fatter and more unhealthy than their counterparts in Europe. I wonder how much of these maternal health problems are related to health problems overall.

 

[panamaican]

Dont you guys have people who excuse your imperialist wars but you cannot forgive a pregnancy? Anti choice is really weird. It is either Islamic or just ignorance often without compassion. And to think some people even against abortion in case of rape.

It's mind boggling to me too. We have 2 schools of thought on it, we have the religious position which is understandable for those who are religious. But we also have the people who see denying abortion as a way of morally punishing people they think shouldn't be having unprotected sex. A "They shouldn't be fucking irresponsibly, therefore they must keep the baby so that other irresponsible fuckers learn from their mistakes," perspective.

I think there are a small percentage of people who have science based reasons but it's a pretty small percentage.

 

[cincymma79]

The secondary effects are that they close down because so much funding is scuttled. Look at Texas for a plethora of examples.

Condoms are like ten bucks for a months supply unless you are shotgunning cock. You can get ortho for less than two packs of cigarettes in most states. I’m really not sure what else you need. Shit you have plan b an inch away failings those two

 

[Gandhi]

Ayn Rand was very pro-choice, ironically enough.

For sho'

when your best friend and moral example is a serial killer,...I mean what are a few unborn babies to the Dexter of the political world?

 

[zebby23]

Where was that ever my position
Show the post

So explain your position snowflake

 

[21 Savage]

>unironically linking stand-up comedy

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Do you think comparing Iran and the US on this metric is actually useful in anyway?

Do you think that the decrease in services for women in the US has caused this incline in maternal deaths?

Do you think Pro-Life politicians and policies are responsible for the secondary effects of cutting all of that funding for women's services?

1. Without any empirical evidence to point to pro-life causing the uptick in maternal deaths, yeah, I think this metric is very useful. As is the Ireland metric. I don't see how anybody could not, tbh.

2. I don't think its helped, but I don't think its what is responsible.

3. I disagree with the policies, but I don't believe they are responsible.

 

[panamaican]

I think the Ireland example does make a cogent point.

Is it access to abortion or access to healthcare in general that is the issue with regard to maternal death?

It's healthcare in general. Abortion is just one part of that conversation. Particularly because it tends to tie into larger conversations about how we treat poor pregnant women.

 

[SBJJ]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. The OP is fundamentally flawed. I am pro-choice (irrelevant to the conversation, but included), but a bunch of people who are advocated for an end to legal abortion is not impacting complications experienced by mothers during childbirth. That does not even make scientific sense in the slightest. Political opinions and the rise in childbirth complications are not correlated. This is just a really shitty attempt to insert partisan nonsense into what should be a conversation in the medical community about healthcare (access, training, standards of care, etc), lifestyle and environmental impacts on fetuses/expectant mothers, etc.

This thread gets a 0/10

THIS!

It's the definition of having an answer to a problem in your biased mind before investigation of the problem

Hannitty or Jones could throw up the same stats and numbers and make up some bullshit about it being the Pro Choice sides fault.

Hell, a racist could make an even grosser claim.

This has to do with factors not even touched on in the OP

 

[oldshadow]

Completely agree but we both know that isn't going to happen. Young kids make mistakes, poor people don't always have access to preventative care or don't take the time and effort to find it. Society will NEVER stop having unwanted pregnancies so we need to deal with the issue knowing that to be the case. People like @cincymma79 can only see things on extreme levels so we talk about abortion and he talks about drive thru abortions using shotguns. He doesn't talk about making birth control more accessible, he doesn't talk about beefing up adoption practices and making it easier to adopt. The far right are against abortion, against birth control and against entitlements. What does that leave?

It leaves the majority of people more in the center to help with the problem through compermise.

The end goal is to have abortion for birth control to as near 0 as possible.

To that end also we stop making heroes out of baby mommas and baby daddies.

Like its some great thing to be pregnant and raise kids outside of a stable relationship.

We force baby daddies to get jobs and if they don't they get arrested cor non support and sentenced to a chain gang where they are paid for work and the money is used for the child.

We use society to shame and encourage. We provide the means and the pressure to prevent pregnancy outside of a stable environment.

It requires many efforts in different areas.

 

[HomerThompson]

1. Without any empirical evidence to point to pro-life causing the uptick in maternal deaths, yeah, I think this metric is very useful. As is the Ireland metric. I don't see how anybody could not, tbh.

2. I don't think its helped, but I don't think its what is responsible.

3. I disagree with the policies, but I don't believe they are responsible.

1. There is evidence. It's in the OP.

2. What's responsible in your opinion?

3. What is responsible then?

 

[cincymma79]

So explain your position snowflake

I’m not 100% pro life. I draw the line at 20 weeks. That’s when it’ll survive on its own outside the womb plus a couple weeks to be safe. I just don’t want people using abortion as contraception. Children should be covered by Medicaid.

 

[zebby23]

I’m not 100% pro life. I draw the line at 20 weeks. That’s when it’ll survive on its own outside the womb plus a couple weeks to be safe. I just don’t want people using abortion as contraception. Children should be covered by Medicaid.

So you do have reasonable positions when you aren't quickly posting dramatic nonsense. Well look at that!!

 

[SBJJ]

Ayn Rand was very pro-choice, ironically enough.

Dude needs a proof reader before he puts up posts.

Worse than Trump himself

 

[HomerThompson]

1. Without any empirical evidence to point to pro-life causing the uptick in maternal deaths, yeah, I think this metric is very useful. As is the Ireland metric. I don't see how anybody could not, tbh.

2. I don't think its helped, but I don't think its what is responsible.

3. I disagree with the policies, but I don't believe they are responsible.

1. From the article:

Texas, for example, saw its maternal mortality rate more than double between 2010 and 2014, as the state closed more than half of its abortion clinics and severely cut funding for Planned Parenthood. Thanks to Texas and a few other states with strong “pro-life” lobbies, mostly in the south, the US now bears the ghastly distinction of having the highest maternal mortality rate of all the world’s wealthy democracies.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Dude you know I think your a great poster but are you really going to put all the weight of your rebuttal on the use of the word "mostly"?

I don't gif a lot but as I channel my inner teenage girl in me, I have to LOL, SMH, ROFLCOPTER.

From a legit poster I may have put more effort into clarify my position, like i did with @panamaican just a bit ago, but he's obviously just jumping to conclusions to save face. Nothing in my post history suggests that I hate woman. Nothing in that post is controversial. Unless you hate men and think that they are mostly responsible

And I love a good gif, I'm pretty damn good at using them, too, if I do say so myself, but homer is obnoxious with spamming of gifs. You know they removed one from the emojis because he overused it, right? And he's a hypocrite with his standards for how the WR should operate.
He'll spam emojis gifs and then tell people to leave a thread if he doesn't agree with them.

 

[panamaican]

He is not without responsibility. She has to carry the burden of unintended consequences. Its her body; her rules.

They both carry the burden. And it's his body just as much as it's hers during sex. I was being slightly tongue in cheek earlier but this is an area where the "Nope, all on her" rhetoric really doesn't make sense to me. When the 2 people are about to have sex, there is no pregnancy. There's no compelling argument that either party is more/less responsible for preventing pregnancy at this point.

And when someone suggests that the woman bears the greater responsibility, I always cross check that against their position on child support and child custody. Because on this board, we get a decent number of people complaining about how the legal system is unfair to men in these child related matters but then there tends to be some overlap with the same people arguing that the woman should prevent the pregnancy in the first place.

It's just a weird position to say that dudes bear minimal responsibility for preventing pregnancy (I'm not attributing that position to you), relative to the woman, and that dudes bear minimal responsibility for child support following pregnancy. And then to also say that "traditional family values" need to return and that feminism is destroying world or whatever hyperbolic statement is used. The whole combination suggests a world where we, men, can act in a consequence free fashion and simply shift the blame primarily onto women and absolve ourselves of acting differently/better.

We used to shame women who got pregnant out of wedlock but we also expected the men to immediately marry the woman and start providing for her financially. We recognized that both people were responsible to prevent the situation.

 

[curryjunkie]

I think the Ireland example does make a cogent point.

Is it access to abortion or access to healthcare in general that is the issue with regard to maternal death?

we are hardy breeding stock, a dozen kids was no trouble in the past, seriously though, access to healthcare is pretty good in ireland, nobody on benefits misses out.
and abortions are available to those who travel to the UK.
thay are debating abortion at the moment in ireland,and a referendum is to be held this year.
roughly 2500 terminations were carried out in the UK last year by irish women.
the catholic church no longer has a major say in womens bodies.