The 50 Greatest PW's of All Time - Larry Matysik

Discussion in 'Pro Wrestling Discussion' started by DM1982, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. DM1982

    DM1982 Brown Belt

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    Have any of you real PW fans read this:


    1770411046.jpg


    Matysik shoots on WWE's top 50 list from a few years ago, then gives his own with detailed accounts, with a detailed account of the criteria for entry, and why certain stars aren't in.


    Here is WWE's list:


    1 Shawn Michaels
    2 The Undertaker
    3 SCSA
    4 Bret Hart
    5 The Rock
    6 Harley Race
    7 Ricky Steamboat
    8 Andre the Giant
    9 Rey Mysterio
    10 Rowdy Roddy Piper
    11 Eddie Guerrero
    12 HHH
    13 Gorgeous George
    14 Randy Savage
    15 Curt Henning
    16 John Cena
    17 Ric Flair tie Dusty Rhodes
    19 Edge
    20 Jerry Lawler
    21 Lou Thesz
    22 Terry Funk
    23 Hulk Hogan
    24 Bruno Sammartino
    25 Y2J
    26 Ted DiBiase
    27 Moolah
    28 Classy Freddie Blassie
    29 Randy Orton
    30 Pat Patterson
    31 Iron Sheik
    32 Jimmy Snuka
    33 Mick Foley
    34 Kurt Angle
    35 Buddy Rogers
    36 Gorilla Monsoon
    37 JYD
    38 Superstar Billy Graham
    39 Jake the Snake Roberts
    40 Big Show
    41 Jack Brisco
    42 Sgt Slaughter
    43 Kane
    44 Nick Bockwinkel
    45 Jeff Hardy
    46 Dory Funk Jr
    47 Bob Backlund
    48 Ravishing Rick Rude
    49 Batista
    50 Killer Kawalski


    Here is Matysik's list:


    1 Lou Thesz
    2 Ric Flair
    3 Ed Strangler Lewis
    4 Hulk Hogan
    5 Bruno Sammartino
    6 SCSA
    7 Jim Londos
    8 Buddy Rogers
    9 Gene Kiniski
    10 Frank Gotch
    11 Verne Gagne
    12 Harley Race
    13 Terry Funk tie Dory Funk Jr
    15 Shawn Michaels
    16 Johnny Valentine
    17 Wild Bill Longson
    18 Nick Bockwinkel
    19 Jack Brisco
    20 The Rock
    21 Bret Hart
    22 Dick the Bruiser
    23 Edouard Carpentier
    24 Andre the Giant
    25 Randy Savage
    26 HHH
    27 Killer Kowalski
    28 Fritz Von Erich
    29 Whipper Billy Watson
    30 Joe Stecher
    31 John Cena
    32 Bruiser Brody
    33 Kurt Angle
    34 Danny Hodge
    35 Bob Backlund
    36 The Undertaker
    37 Gorgeous George
    38 Pat O'Connor
    39 Ted DiBiase
    40 Rowdy Roddy Piper
    41 Ray Stevens
    42 Classy Freddie Blassie
    43 Ray Steele
    44 Dusty Rhodes
    45 Ricky Steamboat
    46 Big Bill Miller
    47 Superstar Billy Graham
    48 Brock Lesnar
    49 Stan Hansen
    50 Randy Orton


    Needless to say, hugely different, and yes WWE's list is ass, but did Matysik go too far with picking so many old school/originator wrestlers from bygone eras? And, even though it is a very well written book - he truly is a great authority on PW - his list for me almost lost integrity from the off when he lists RKO and Brock in the top 50; after all he talks about in relation to strict criteria and all-round greatness required to make the list. Especially in light of those he didn't include - Y2J, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Curt Henning, Jake Roberts, Rick Rude - all supposedly inferior to RKO and Lesnar (No fucking way). He does address all this, and otherwise it's an ace book.


    Any thoughts?
     
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  2. GSPSAKU

    GSPSAKU Brown Belt

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    It depends on what your criteria is. What are the criteria? Why is Jericho NOT ON THE LIST? Multiple time world champion, full time wrestler active wrestler and a 2nd tier star for 14 years and has been on-off for the past 10 years. How Ted DiBiase is ranked above or right below a guy like Jericho on both lists is beyond me. Anyhow, I take the WWE's list with a grain of salt anyhow.

    Glad to see Ray Stevens on here since I consider him the precursor to the Hennigs and a lesser degree, Ziggler. How John Cena is not top 15 all time on either list is crazy considering he's been the #1 guy in the #1 promotion in the world for 10 years now. I'll have to come up with my own list sometime.
     
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  3. TheHigherPower

    TheHigherPower Corporate Ministry Belt

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    WWE's list is ass because Hogan and Flair were in TNA at the time so of course Vince had to be Vince and let his ego get in the way.
    I don't understand why Rock is only #20 the other one when Austin is #6.
     
  4. Pliny Pete

    Pliny Pete Puts Butts In Seats

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    I love Matysiks book about St Louis and his Brody book is pretty good but I aint interested in reading other peoples opinions in list form

    Also theres prolly about 4 people in this whole sub-forum that actually know who Matysik is so I wouldnt expect much interest in his list
     
  5. TheHigherPower

    TheHigherPower Corporate Ministry Belt

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    He must be some IWC neckbeard because Cena should be a lot higher considering he carried the sport for like a decade.
     
  6. GSPSAKU

    GSPSAKU Brown Belt

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    I think 4 is generous lol. I have not read his 50's GOATS but I have two of his books and both were excellent; Wrestling at the Chase and Golden Era: St Louis Wrestling Record.
     
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  7. deezy

    deezy Blue Belt

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    Lists are subjective.

    Doesn't matter who you pick, it'll be wrong to anyone.
     
  8. flowwiththego

    flowwiththego Miss Samantha Fox Platinum Member

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    As saku wrote, it depends on the criteria. It is skewed because of his association with St. Louis. It is also just a U.S. list.
    For my money the 1 2 3 should be Rikidozan, Hulk and Santo and I wouldnt argue with any order. Under certain criteria Flair wold be my number one. Nice to see some names on the list.
     
  9. DM1982

    DM1982 Brown Belt

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    As stated, he goes into detail as to why Jericho etc are not on list; and as I indicated, I also disagree, he certainly should be in there as opposed to Orton.

    His criteria was all facets of being a pro wrestler; which again, is why it's puzzling Orton is in.

    As for the Cena question, Matysik first considered not putting Cena in at all; but reconsidered and did so. Selling power alone is not enough to get you to top of his list - and you have to take into account whether Cena would be so effective in, for example, the pre-televised, shoot era. Things like that. I think his place is fair.

    For all the questionable picks, Matysik delivers a meaty book that would take some rebuttal.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2016
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  10. DM1982

    DM1982 Brown Belt

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    Matysik shoots on WWE, McMahon and the list; basically saying WWE's list was pure marketing.


    As for Rock; longevity is perhaps the key to his position; people above him dominated PW for many years longer than he did. And, were better workers.
     
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  11. DM1982

    DM1982 Brown Belt

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    No harm in trying it; he knows WAAAY more about PW than you do. But whatever I guess.
     
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  12. DM1982

    DM1982 Brown Belt

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    He offers you a chance for rebuttal; just come 'heavily armed with facts and reason'. IMO, his list is the best until someone with more industry exsperience than him (he also worked with WWF/E), a greater depth of knowledge of entire history of PW, and tackles the subject as hard as he has done.
     
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  13. DM1982

    DM1982 Brown Belt

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    You're an example of a clueless, modern PW fan; the history of PW pre-dates by eons what you have watched of PW and think only what's going on now is relevant to all-time lists. Cena is a clunky, unconvincing worker with decent athleticism, who has proved a massive $$$ maker; but that is not all the list is concerned with.

    No Matysik is not a neckbeard; again, not to sound too pompous, but he has experienced more PW in first person than you will ever know.
     
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  14. DM1982

    DM1982 Brown Belt

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    Yeah he stipulates that the entrants would have to be English speaking, originally; but he constantly cites Rikidozan in reference to great American guys that were big in Japan, also. And hey, he put Hulk really high, and a toss up between Thesz and Flair for one, so....
     
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  15. Pliny Pete

    Pliny Pete Puts Butts In Seats

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    You dont know what I know so how bout you eat a dick bitch
     
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  16. TheHigherPower

    TheHigherPower Corporate Ministry Belt

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    Then why is Austin so much higher when his time on top was limited like the Rock's? He certainly wasn't THAT much better of a worker on top either since it was after his neck injury.
     
  17. DM1982

    DM1982 Brown Belt

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    I know you're an unhappy little man; based on this bitchmade response from you - so quick to the homosexual proclivities - very telling.

    And yeah, I know Larry Matysik knows more about PW than you; you're a little turd who is 10,000 messages deep in 2 years on Sherdog - get a life.
     
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  18. TheHigherPower

    TheHigherPower Corporate Ministry Belt

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    Okay, so he IS an IWC neckbeard.
     
  19. DM1982

    DM1982 Brown Belt

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    That's a good point; their careers go beyond WWE though, don't they? Austin had more diverse success in PW in general, I guess.
     
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  20. TheHigherPower

    TheHigherPower Corporate Ministry Belt

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    He was nothing more than a midcarder in WCW though and had trouble drawing as a heel.
     

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