The 2 Biggest Detriments to African Americans: Integration and Immigration

Where is "the black community" located? I've seen so many people talk about it, but I've never known where this mystical land lies?
 
I've seen plenty of black individuals and small groups prosper but I have never seen large scale groups of black people prosper...and neither have you.

I'm not being critical of Black America when I say we need to aggregate our resources in order to prosper as a group. I'm just stating the facts. Every other group does it and we need to as well. I frequent black businesses when I can and I promote other blacks when I have the opportunity.

But part of the problem is that which you seem to not want to address at all...the dysfunction within the black community. It's pretty hard for one to promote fellow blacks when there are so few, relatively speaking, worthy of promotion. Its hard to do business with black entrepreneurs when there are so few with that mindset and the education and discipline standards are so low.

See, that's what I was referring to. How can you be sure I've never seen large scale groups of black people succeed? Is it impossible for you to believe it as true? What does that say about your perceptions and your expectations of your community that you doubt that other black people have exposure to success at a level that you haven't seen?

You mention dysfunction within the community right after insisting that I can't know large scale groups of successful black people - see a problem there?

As for the rest, you're passing the buck. You know few black fathers? So what - promote the ones you know. Encourage the young men you know to become the type of fathers that they would want to have had. There's lots you can do other than complain.

Instead of complaining about the lack of black entrepreneurs - who about you become one? How about you organize resources to help them reach the next level. Again, there's lots you can do other than complain.

I said it before and I'll say it again - you write the narrative. If you can only see the negativity in your fellow black man then that's the narrative you've decided applies. I see the growth and I celebrate it. I encourage others to participate in it.

I don't sit around and say "Why aren't they better?"

I ask "How can I add to the progress?"
 
I've seen plenty of black individuals and small groups prosper but I have never seen large scale groups of black people prosper...and neither have you.

I'm not being critical of Black America when I say we need to aggregate our resources in order to prosper as a group. I'm just stating the facts. Every other group does it and we need to as well. I frequent black businesses when I can and I promote other blacks when I have the opportunity.

But part of the problem is that which you seem to not want to address at all...the dysfunction within the black community. It's pretty hard for one to promote fellow blacks when there are so few, relatively speaking, worthy of promotion. Its hard to do business with black entrepreneurs when there are so few with that mindset and the education and discipline standards are so low. It's hard to go into black neighborhoods and help build them up when they are riddled with drugs, crime, and broken down families.
If the community is riddled with drugs, crime, and broken families how would limiting immigration help? Was your response to my post earlier you withdrawing from your integration angle?
 
Black owned businesses that serve all people is the goal Rip. It's black ownership. The more black owned businesses that we have and the more we can serve not just our own people but others is what leads to wealth accumulation for black americans as a group. The same it does for white, hispanic, and asian owned businesses.

Reread what I wrote. I'm not advocating segregation or separation...only aggregation.

You seem to think that whites feel threatened by asian wealth...

We are not.
 
See, that's what I was referring to. How can you be sure I've never seen large scale groups of black people succeed? Is it impossible for you to believe it as true? What does that say about your perceptions and your expectations of your community that you doubt that other black people have exposure to success at a level that you haven't seen?

Well I guess then the question becomes how do you define 'large scale'? This isn't a question about preception and expectation...it's cold hard numbers. There is objective data and information that shows that Black America has very little ownership, entrepreneurship, employment, education, upward mobility, ect.

But perhaps you have a different definition of "large scale" than everyone else.

You mention dysfunction within the community right after insisting that I can't know large scale groups of successful black people - see a problem there?

As for the rest, you're passing the buck. You know few black fathers? So what - promote the ones you know. Encourage the young men you know to become the type of fathers that they would want to have had. There's lots you can do other than complain.

Instead of complaining about the lack of black entrepreneurs - who about you become one? How about you organize resources to help them reach the next level. Again, there's lots you can do other than complain.

Again, I'm not complaining about anything. And I've already told you that I support black businesses and promote black people when I can. What I am saying is that I could do even more if more black individuals and families focused more on education, entrepreneurship, discipline, hard work, ect.

I said it before and I'll say it again - you write the narrative. If you can only see the negativity in your fellow black man then that's the narrative you've decided applies. I see the growth and I celebrate it. I encourage others to participate in it.

I don't sit around and say "Why aren't they better?"

I ask "How can I add to the progress?"

I don't sit around and ask that question either. What I do however is recognize that each individual has to be held accountable for their own progress. People like you and I can only do so much to "help". When it comes to individuals who refuse to take responsibility for their life and decisions then there is not much I can do with them or for them.

But if you notice...my op said nothing about the dysfunction with the black community. That is you who is driving the conversation in that direction.
 
You seem to think that whites feel threatened by asian wealth...

We are not.

You are however threatened by a growing Hispanic population and a changing culture. And you guys are slowly beginning to respond to it. And you will eventually be threatened by Asians as well.
 
Black owned businesses that serve all people is the goal Rip. It's black ownership. The more black owned businesses that we have and the more we can serve not just our own people but others is what leads to wealth accumulation for black americans as a group. The same it does for white, hispanic, and asian owned businesses.

Reread what I wrote. I'm not advocating segregation or separation...only aggregation.
The problem is the community. Once a black business that has had a long history of serving those within his/her community chooses to seek to serve those outside of the black community, the black community tends to become resentful and begins to pressure the black business owner socially and economically. A good example of this is the backlash that black hair care product producer Shea received when they reached out outside to the black community- https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/shea-moisture-ad-falls-flat-after-backlash-n750421
 
If the community is riddled with drugs, crime, and broken families how would limiting immigration help? Was your response to my post earlier you withdrawing from your integration angle?

Limiting immigration keeps more opportunities available for people and communities to pull themselves out of these circumstances and lifestyles.

Also, I happen to believe that these various immigrant groups are not very fond of us and as they grow their power we will begin to be treated very badly.
 
So all these people in my city who have been here for years - some even for decades - yet can't speak a lick of English are very open about integrating?

And the millions who broke the law to illegally come here instead of going thru the legal process are open to integrating ?

What kind of integration is that?

Those who cant speak a lick of english are people who immigrated as adults, dreamers and citizens cant speak spanish for shit.

 
Limiting immigration keeps more opportunities available for people and communities to pull themselves out of these circumstances and lifestyles.

Also, I happen to believe that these various immigrant groups are not very fond of us and as they grow their power we will begin to be treated very badly.
More immigrants also equates to more potential customers. You're making a generalized assumption of all immigrants in your second sentence.
 
Thats not how it works. We don't need more customers...we need more ownership.

Well, if you expand your customer pool to include more than just black people there will be more opportunities for ownership.


And I stand by that statement

Generalization of whole groups of people noted.
 
Well, if you expand your customer pool to include more than just black people there will be more opportunities for ownership.

We don't need any customers...we have a built in customer base already. Black America has $1 trillion a year in spending power and we send 95% of it to white owned businesses. All we have to do is redirect that into our own neighborhoods and own people and boom...customers galore.

Generalization of whole groups of people noted.

Please also note that I don't give a fuck. I know not every individual feels that way but large portions do. I'll let you worry about trying to parse your words and be politically correct. I'll just focus on making the point.
 
Well I guess then the question becomes how do you define 'large scale'? This isn't a question about preception and expectation...it's cold hard numbers. There is objective data and information that shows that Black America has very little ownership, entrepreneurship, employment, education, upward mobility, ect.

But perhaps you have a different definition of "large scale" than everyone else.

Perhaps but you're the one you introduced the differentiator so it's really your scale, not mine.


Again, I'm not complaining about anything. And I've already told you that I support black businesses and promote black people when I can. What I am saying is that I could do even more if more black individuals and families focused more on education, entrepreneurship, discipline, hard work, ect.

Yes, you are complaining. If you wanted to find people focused on education, entrepreneurship, discipline, hard work, etc. it would be extremely easy...if you actually wanted to.

I was able to find plenty of such people while I was still in middle school. I find it hard to believe that you can't find them as an adult. Unless you're not really looking...

Additionally, if you can't find them - you could help create them. Which it sounds like you're not doing.

You're just complaining.


I don't sit around and ask that question either. What I do however is recognize that each individual has to be held accountable for their own progress. People like you and I can only do so much to "help". When it comes to individuals who refuse to take responsibility for their life and decisions then there is not much I can do with them or for them.

But if you notice...my op said nothing about the dysfunction with the black community. That is you who is driving the conversation in that direction.

It's obvious that you and I aren't the same type of people.

You're talking about African Americans as a group and then bitching out on the hard work.

You make this long post about aggregation but then when it comes time to put up or shut up, you become "Mr. It's about the individuals." <{hfved}>

That's extremely disingenuous. You want to praise the efforts of other communities? Here's the difference - they don't say it's about the individuals. They take responsibility for the individuals because they know that the individuals create the community.

As my dad says "You take care of the pennies, the dollars wll take of themselves." A community is the same thing - you take care of the individuals, the community gets stronger as result.

Here's my opinion - you don't actually have any positive feelings on black America at all. You primarily want to look down your nose at those who are not succeeding by your standards. But you don't want to really help them succeed.

Like those people who want to talk about the homeless but can never be bothered to visit a shelter.
 
Perhaps but you're the one you introduced the differentiator so it's really your scale, not mine.




Yes, you are complaining. If you wanted to find people focused on education, entrepreneurship, discipline, hard work, etc. it would be extremely easy...if you actually wanted to.

I was able to find plenty of such people while I was still in middle school. I find it hard to believe that you can't find them as an adult. Unless you're not really looking...

Additionally, if you can't find them - you could help create them. Which it sounds like you're not doing.

You're just complaining.




It's obvious that you and I aren't the same type of people.

You're talking about African Americans as a group and then bitching out on the hard work.

You make this long post about aggregation but then when it comes time to put up or shut up, you become "Mr. It's about the individuals." <{hfved}>

That's extremely disingenuous. You want to praise the efforts of other communities? Here's the difference - they don't say it's about the individuals. They take responsibility for the individuals because they know that the individuals create the community.

As my dad says "You take care of the pennies, the dollars wll take of themselves." A community is the same thing - you take care of the individuals, the community gets stronger as result.

Here's my opinion - you don't actually have any positive feelings on black America at all. You primarily want to look down your nose at those who are not succeeding by your standards. But you don't want to really help them succeed.

Like those people who want to talk about the homeless but can never be bothered to visit a shelter.
<TheWire1>
 
We don't need any customers...we have a built in customer base already. Black America has $1 trillion a year in spending power and we send 95% of it to white owned businesses. All we have to do is redirect that into our own neighborhoods and own people and boom...customers galore.

I don't want more customers I just want black customers to discriminate against white ones. Derp.

Please also note that I don't give a fuck. I know not every individual feels that way but large portions do. I'll let you worry about trying to parse your words and be politically correct. I'll just focus on making the point.

Well your points are garbage. Looks like you want to use your shit logic as an excuse to generalize and discriminate against asian and hispanic immigrants. Oh well, I guess I should have known better.
 
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You are however threatened by a growing Hispanic population and a changing culture. And you guys are slowly beginning to respond to it. And you will eventually be threatened by Asians as well.

What do you think is the difference between Mexican immigrants versus asian immigrants?
 
But if you notice...my op said nothing about the dysfunction with the black community. That is you who is driving the conversation in that direction.

You went down that road here.

It does...it just happens to be completely dysfunctional. Over the past 60yrs we have based our culture on being the opposite of white people. So things like family, education, entrepreneurship, ect are not highly prevalent within our "culture".
 
Yes, you are complaining. If you wanted to find people focused on education, entrepreneurship, discipline, hard work, etc. it would be extremely easy...if you actually wanted to.

I was able to find plenty of such people while I was still in middle school. I find it hard to believe that you can't find them as an adult. Unless you're not really looking...

Additionally, if you can't find them - you could help create them. Which it sounds like you're not doing.

You're just complaining.

Again, I frequent black businesses and promote/work with black people when I can. I look for and take advantage of the opportunities to do this where I can. I'm not a political activist nor a community organizer. I don't have those skills and expertise in my repertoire. But guess what? That has no bearing on my(and so many others) argument on what needs to happen for Black America to prosper as a group.

Stay on topic please.

It's obvious that you and I aren't the same type of people.

You're talking about African Americans as a group and then bitching out on the hard work.

You make this long post about aggregation but then when it comes time to put up or shut up, you become "Mr. It's about the individuals." <{hfved}>

I'm saying that in order to successfully aggregate our resources, power, and influence as a group it takes responsibility and accountability of each individual within that that group. Absent individual responsiblity and accountability there can be no group success.

That's extremely disingenuous. You want to praise the efforts of other communities? Here's the difference - they don't say it's about the individuals. They take responsibility for the individuals because they know that the individuals create the community.

Guess what these other groups have an inherently much greater amount of? You guessed...higher standards of personally accountability.

As my dad says "You take care of the pennies, the dollars wll take of themselves." A community is the same thing - you take care of the individuals, the community gets stronger as result.

Ok, so now it's about the individual? I could have swore you just told me it wasn't.

Here's my opinion - you don't actually have any positive feelings on black America at all. You primarily want to look down your nose at those who are not succeeding by your standards. But you don't want to really help them succeed.

Like those people who want to talk about the homeless but can never be bothered to visit a shelter.

Lol, ok Pan. Apparently I didn't grow up in black neighborhoods and have a circle of black people around me. Nor am I not part of black family.

Of course this notion is ridiculous but lets say your theory is true...does it change anything about the OP? If I did just want to look down at black people, which I don't, how does that change any of the arguments I'm making? It doesn't.

Heres my opinion - This is just you being emotional again. You equate being critical of clear and obvious deficiencies as being hateful or looking down ones nose. You don't understand the concept of expressing love and care through holding people personally accountable. You would rather let people wallow in their despair and convince them that is ok so long as they feel good. You would rather ignore objective facts and objective data that says Black America is grave trouble and pretend we are prospering to make people feel good. That is not love. That is absolute retarded foolishness. That is detrimental. And that is a blueprint for continued failure.

Look, I'll continue to ask more out of black people and hold us to a standard that matches our potential and you can keep telling people that having the lowest education standards, highest crime rates, highest unemployment rates, and not owning anything = large scale prosperity.
 
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