That NY lawyer? Now faces fitness complaint before NYBar lodged by (former undocumented)Congressman

[Lord Coke]

There's nothing arbitrary or capricious here. You have a recorded instance of a lawyer threatening individuals with government action for having a conversation in a foreign language.

As a lawyer, his formal training teaches him that simply speaking a foreign language doesn't rise to the level of necessitating an ICE investigation. He also knows that if he believes a crime is being committed (such as the employment of illegal aliens) he should stop participating in that crime...meaning stop eating there.

So, it's very clear that this lawyer is either disregarding a known crime or running around and threatening people for no justifiable reason, ie harassment.

Looking into why he's doing those things isn't arbitrary since you have 2 potential ethics issues to discuss and it's not capricious since ethics issues are the sort of things disciplinary boards investigate.

Your interest in your license doesn't override the Bar's interest in protecting the reputation of the industry from bad actors.

I was talking about my scenario not the NY instance.

 

[HereticBD]

What is the line there? What if he threatened to call ICE because he reasonably believed the workers were illegal?

Perhaps, but there's really no argument that he was being reasonable here. They were speaking Spanish, so illegal? That's quite a leap. Then you have the other video of him freaking out on the street on some random dude.

He's clearly not all there.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

What if an attorney was shouting vile things at women entering an abortion clinic? Or an attorney protesting a military funeral ala westboro church?

All are instances of constitutionally protected speech. Having the state bar or disciplinary board choose which offensive speech precludes one from taking the bar and/or being subject to professional discipline is an extremely slippery slope. It rubs me the wrong way even if I abhor and find completely repugnant that type of behavior.

I don't think freedom of expression covers freedom to harass.

If the guy is out on the corner saying all Spanish speakers should be deported, that's fine. But him berating a restaurant worker for speaking Spanish and then threatening to call ICE on other restaurant patrons isn't constitutionally protected speech.

 

[panamaican]

I was talking about my scenario not the NY instance.

Your fictional scenario was based on the facts already being in your favor (having provable knowledge that the employees are illegal and actually calling ICE). What's the point of discussing that?

It's not much a debate if you say "Assuming that all the facts that make my action justifiable are in play, do I have a defense against disciplinary action." It's like asking "If we assume that my life was actually in immediate danger and I have proof thereof, can I win a self-defense case?" Obviously yes but it tells us nothing about the scenarios where your life wasn't in immediate danger or where you have no proof.

 

[Lord Coke]

Your fictional scenario was based on the facts already being in your favor (having provable knowledge that the employees are illegal and actually calling ICE). What's the point of discussing that?

It's not much a debate if you say "Assuming that all the facts that make my action justifiable are in play, do I have a defense against disciplinary action." It's like asking "If we assume that my life was actually in immediate danger and I have proof thereof, can I win a self-defense case?" Obviously yes but it tells us nothing about the scenarios where your life wasn't in immediate danger or where you have no proof.

Based my scenario you said I would lose in federal court. I was responding to that statement.

 

[MicroBrew]

Is the lawyer a orthodox Jew? Those guys take care of their own. If he is reform he is problay screwed. The Reform guy are much more likely to not like him over this. Orthodox people take care of there own regardless and they are almost all Trump supporters anyway.

I too have the hunch that he is Orthodox, because he is Jewish, very pro Israel and supports Trump. Orthodox Jews are yuge Trump supporters. Kushner is Orthodox or ultra orthodox. Trump's lawyer buddy and now US Ambassador to Israel is also Orthodox.

 

[TheGreatA]

I took have the hunch that he is Orthodox, because he is Jewish, very pro Israel and supports Trump. Orthodox Jews are yuge Trump supporters. Kushner is Orthodox or ultra orthodox. Trump's lawyer buddy and now US Ambassador to Israel is also Orthodox.

Orthodox Jews and fundamentalist Christians in America believe that America is a country with a "Judeo-Christian" foundation, principles and culture. Which is pretty much bullshit, but it serves to excuse their lack of patriotism towards America otherwise. By being practising Jews and Christians, they already believe that they are being patriotic Americans.

Freemasons, more than anything, probably have the best claim to laying out America's foundations.

 

[panamaican]

Based my scenario you said I would lose in federal court. I was responding to that statement.

You would. I'm not even sure what your standing would be in federal court.

 

[BKMMAFAN]

I don't think freedom of expression covers freedom to harass.

If the guy is out on the corner saying all Spanish speakers should be deported, that's fine. But him berating a restaurant worker for speaking Spanish and then threatening to call ICE on other restaurant patrons isn't constitutionally protected speech.

I do agree that's a distinction to be made. Not sure if I'd agree it isn't protected, per se. Was he asked to leave and refused? Then charge him with disorderly or trespassing.

 

[Lord Coke]

You would. I'm not even sure what your standing would be in federal court.

You would sue under 1983 2201 2202 and 1331
Claim a due process violation
and have standing because per lujan you had suffered an injury in fact that is redressable by the court.

Paul Clement is suing the ABA on due process ground on the behalf of two 4 tier law schools on a somewhat shakier but similar legal theory. Charlotte law school is claiming that the government acted in a arbitrator manner in dealing with their low bar pasage rate.
link to complaint

https://images.law.com/contrib/content/uploads/documents/292/Complaint-filed-5-15-18-318-cv00256.pdf

link to article


https://www.law.com/2018/05/15/defunct-charlotte-law-school-with-kirkland-ellis-help-sues-aba/

Represented by three Kirkland & Ellis partners, defunct Charlotte School of Law and its parent company on Tuesday filed suit against the American Bar Association and its various entities involved in law school accreditation, alleging that the ABA violated the school’s due process when it placed Charlotte on probation in 2016.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

His Name is Aaron Schlossberg, and he is a die hard Jew who supports Israel.

MSM should get this guy, with the republican from Cali named Little, and that Spencer guy who heads the White Nationalist movement. Put them on a Jerry Springer like show. We can put in Colin Kaep, and some bad ass Mexican gangbanger from prison.

 

[marioh]

that's hilarious that he has been recorded losing his marbles multiple times. in the age of the internet and camera phones, being a douchebag can have more severe consequences than prior to it.

i see a name and address change in his future, lol.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I do agree that's a distinction to be made. Not sure if I'd agree it isn't protected, per se. Was he asked to leave and refused? Then charge him with disorderly or trespassing.

Personally, I don't think he should be charged with anything, despite believing his harassing and threatening of customers and employees isn't free speech.

The public shaming and professional consequences of his acts is punishment enough.

 

[JadeOwl]

His associate quit apparently.

 

[MicroBrew]

Orthodox Jews and fundamentalist Christians in America believe that America is a country with a "Judeo-Christian" foundation, principles and culture. Which is pretty much bullshit, but it serves to excuse their lack of patriotism towards America otherwise. By being practising Jews and Christians, they already believe that they are being patriotic Americans.

Freemasons, more than anything, probably have the best claim to laying out America's foundations.

Fundi Christians believe in America as a Christian country. The "Judeo-Christian" term became popular more recently, like 70s or later, to placate Jewish Americans because fundamentalist Christians have always and still elicit fear and loathing amongst Jews. My dad said when he was growing up, it was just normal to say America was a Christian country with a Christian founding, the "Judeo-Christian" moniker wasn't used.

The Christian Zionists have been sucking up to Israel and have been courted by rightwing Jews and Israel, but Jewish intellectuals and media are no friends of these Christians. Christian-Zionists are just useful idiots for Israel, like how well meaning Liberals are usefull idiots for Islamists.

 

[MicroBrew]

Personally, I don't think he should be charged with anything, despite believing his harassing and threatening of customers and employees isn't free speech.

The public shaming and professional consequences of his acts is punishment enough.

@panamaican
Isn't it illegal to threaten someone in the manner he did (i.e. threatening to sick the law onto someone without any proof) , absent any evidence ?

 

[The Big Bang]

Personally, I don't think he should be charged with anything, despite believing his harassing and threatening of customers and employees isn't free speech.

The public shaming and professional consequences of his acts is punishment enough.

If he goes on harassing strangers on the street, he should be "charged" with a stun gun that makes his heart explode.

 

[TheGreatA]

Fundi Christians believe in America as a Christian country. The "Judeo-Christian" term became popular more recently, like 70s or later, to placate Jewish Americans because fundamentalist Christians have always and still elicit fear and loathing amongst Jews. My dad said when he was growing up, it was just normal to say American was a Christian country with a Christian founding, the "Judeo-Christian" moniker wasn't used.

The Christian Zionists have been sucking up to Israel and have been courted by rightwing Jews and Israel, but Jewish intellectuals and media are no friends of these Christians. Christian-Zionists are just useful idiots for Israel, like how well meaning Liberals are usefull idiots for Islamists.

That's why the idea of a "Judeo-Christian America" is, as I said, mostly bullshit.

Jews can stake no claim to the foundation of America. Meaning, not the American continent, obviously, but United States. Christians, maybe somewhat. But if you look deeper into it, you'll realize that it was mostly Freemasons who founded America. As in, it was Masonic ideals and principles that laid the foundation, more so than Christian or Jewish principles.

That's why America's Christians often come off as hypocrites, as they try to balance out their Christian beliefs to co-exist with the Masonic foundations of American constitution. Leading to a very uniquely "American" interpretation of Christianity.

 

[panamaican]

You would sue under 1983 2201 2202 and 1331
Claim a due process violation
and have standing because per lujan you had suffered an injury in fact that is redressable by the court.

Paul Clement is suing the ABA on due process ground on the behalf of two 4 tier law schools on a somewhat shakier but similar legal theory. Charlotte law school is claiming that the government acted in a arbitrator manner in dealing with their low bar pasage rate.
link to complaint

https://images.law.com/contrib/content/uploads/documents/292/Complaint-filed-5-15-18-318-cv00256.pdf

link to article


https://www.law.com/2018/05/15/defunct-charlotte-law-school-with-kirkland-ellis-help-sues-aba/

Represented by three Kirkland & Ellis partners, defunct Charlotte School of Law and its parent company on Tuesday filed suit against the American Bar Association and its various entities involved in law school accreditation, alleging that the ABA violated the school’s due process when it placed Charlotte on probation in 2016.

My disagreement here is that your license is state issued and so your remedies would be in the appropriate state court.

 

[Lord Coke]

My disagreement here is that your license is state issued and so your remedies would be in the appropriate state court.

That is true if you are trying to go through some sort of administrative remedy but the very purpose of the Klu Klux Klan act of 1871 (that created 198)3 litigation) was to prevent federal constitutional rights violations by state and municipal actors. It wasn't until Bivens that the Supreme Court expanded 1983 to federal actors. Of course prior to Biven you still could get injuntive relief through 1331 if all you wanted was your law license back but you would be paying your attorney hourly since that does not allow for fee shifting.

Here, you would be pleading a violation of your Due Process rights under the 14th amendment by the State Bar which is a government entity. That gives you a federal claim of civil rights. Which gets you into federal court and 42 usc 1983 is your vehicle.