Tennessee Executes Man with Controversial Drug Cocktail

I am an opponent of the death penalty. It is ineffective and morally questionable.

That said, this thread is about the method of execution, and as many others said before, use a guillotine or a firing squad. It is relatively safe and quick.

The reason why the Chair or gas or IV were introduced was imo more a societal need to have ''cleaner" executions. The result has been the opposite.
 
I am entertained by right-wing troglodytes attempting to re-litigate the debates of brilliant scholars and statesmen that led to civilized societies and the modern justice system.
 
I’ve read a few articles on this and am dumbfounded that anyone gives a shit that this dude maybe endure some pain in his last minutes of life. He raped and strangled a 7 year old. He should have been slowly impaled over smoldering cinders.

The point is that we aren't torturing them to death as much as I would enjoy that. It's one of those key differences where we distinguish ourselves from the monsters we put down.

As @Madmick is pointing out, there is a reason that the 8th Amendment is in place which is to prevent the government from imposing unduly harsh penalties on defendants.
 
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I think death sentence would work much better to deter more sober and morally lesser (than rape) crimes such as drug trafficking/dealing or armed robbery. These crimes have a calculable reward such as money and goods. The criminals would have to weigh up jewellery vs. their own neck.

dra·co·ni·an
[drəˈkōnēən]
ADJECTIVE

  1. (of laws or their application) excessively harsh and severe.
 
I am entertained by right-wing troglodytes attempting to re-litigate the debates of brilliant scholars and statesmen that led to civilized societies and the modern justice system.
Sure, because it's clearly "right-wing troglodytes" who complain about the justice system. Are these the "right-wing troglodytes" you're talking about?

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Sure, because it's clearly "right-wing troglodytes" who complain about the justice system. Are these the "right-wing troglodytes" you're talking about?

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I don't know... Are these guys calling for a repeal of the 8th Amendment's cruel and unusual punishments clause??
 
And what happens when you torture an innocent man? Tough shit? Ooppss?

Also who here would voulunteer to kill a person with a bullet to the head and then find out they killed an innocent man? Do you think god will be accepting of your sins? Could you do it again when the time comes or would you question the system because the next one could be innocent as well.

A bunch of tough ass people we got here.
 
I am an opponent of the death penalty. It is ineffective and morally questionable.

That said, this thread is about the method of execution, and as many others said before, use a guillotine or a firing squad. It is relatively safe and quick.

The reason why the Chair or gas or IV were introduced was imo more a societal need to have ''cleaner" executions. The result has been the opposite.
Nonsense.
Death Penalty Deters Murders, Studies Say (2007)
CBS News said:
What gets little notice, however, is a series of academic studies over the last half-dozen years that claim to settle a once hotly debated argument — whether the death penalty acts as a deterrent to murder. The analyses say yes. They count between three and 18 lives that would be saved by the execution of each convicted killer.

The reports have horrified death penalty opponents and several scientists, who vigorously question the data and its implications.

So far, the studies have had little impact on public policy. New Jersey's commission on the death penalty this year dismissed the body of knowledge on deterrence as "inconclusive."

But the ferocious argument in academic circles could eventually spread to a wider audience, as it has in the past.

"Science does really draw a conclusion. It did. There is no question about it," said Naci Mocan, an economics professor at the University of Colorado at Denver. "The conclusion is there is a deterrent effect."

A 2003 study he co-authored, and a 2006 study that re-examined the data, found that each execution results in five fewer homicides, and commuting a death sentence means five more homicides. "The results are robust, they don't really go away," he said. "I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the death penalty (deters) — what am I going to do, hide them?"

Statistical studies like his are among a dozen papers since 2001 that capital punishment has deterrent effects. They all explore the same basic theory — if the cost of something (be it the purchase of an apple or the act of killing someone) becomes too high, people will change their behavior (forego apples or shy away from murder).

To explore the question, they look at executions and homicides, by year and by state or county, trying to tease out the impact of the death penalty on homicides by accounting for other factors, such as unemployment data and per capita income, the probabilities of arrest and conviction, and more.

Among the conclusions:

  • Each execution deters an average of 18 murders, according to a 2003 nationwide study by professors at Emory University. (Other studies have estimated the deterred murders per execution at three, five and 14).
  • The Illinois moratorium on executions in 2000 led to 150 additional homicides over four years following, according to a 2006 study by professors at the University of Houston.
  • Speeding up executions would strengthen the deterrent effect. For every 2.75 years cut from time spent on death row, one murder would be prevented, according to a 2004 study by an Emory University professor.
In 2005, there were 16,692 cases of murder and non-negligent manslaughter nationally. There were 60 executions.

The studies' conclusions drew a philosophical response from a well-known liberal law professor, University of Chicago's Cass Sunstein. A critic of the death penalty, in 2005 he co-authored a paper titled "Is capital punishment morally required?"

"If it's the case that executing murderers prevents the execution of innocents by murderers, then the moral evaluation is not simple," he told The Associated Press. "Abolitionists or others, like me, who are skeptical about the death penalty haven't given adequate consideration to the possibility that innocent life is saved by the death penalty."

Sunstein said that moral questions aside, the data needs more study.

Critics of the findings have been vociferous.

Some claim that the pro-deterrent studies made profound mistakes in their methodology, so their results are untrustworthy. Another critic argues that the studies wrongly count all homicides, rather than just those homicides where a conviction could bring the death penalty. And several argue that there are simply too few executions each year in the United States to make a judgment.

"We just don't have enough data to say anything," said Justin Wolfers, an economist at the Wharton School of Business who last year co-authored a sweeping critique of several studies, and said they were "flimsy" and appeared in "second-tier journals."

"This isn't left vs. right. This is a nerdy statistician saying it's too hard to tell," Wolfers said. "Within the advocacy community and legal scholars who are not as statistically adept, they will tell you it's still an open question. Among the small number of economists at leading universities whose bread and butter is statistical analysis, the argument is finished."

Several authors of the pro-deterrent reports said they welcome criticism in the interests of science, but said their work is being attacked by opponents of capital punishment for their findings, not their flaws.

"Instead of people sitting down and saying 'let's see what the data shows,' it's people sitting down and saying 'let's show this is wrong,"' said Paul Rubin, an economist and co-author of an Emory University study. "Some scientists are out seeking the truth, and some of them have a position they would like to defend."

The latest arguments replay a 1970s debate that had an impact far beyond academic circles.

Then, economist Isaac Ehrlich had also concluded that executions deterred future crimes. His 1975 report was the subject of mainstream news articles and public debate, and was cited in papers before the U.S. Supreme Court arguing for a reversal of the top U.S. court's 1972 suspension of executions. (The court, in 1976, reinstated the death penalty.)

Ultimately, a panel was set up by the National Academy of Sciences which decided that Ehrlich's conclusions were flawed. But the new pro-deterrent studies have not gotten that kind of scrutiny.

At least not yet. The academic debate, and the larger national argument about the death penalty itself — with questions about racial and economic disparities in its implementation — shows no signs of fading away.

Steven Shavell, a professor of law and economics at Harvard Law School and co-editor-in-chief of the American Law and Economics Review, said in an e-mail exchange that his journal intends to publish several articles on the statistical studies on deterrence in an upcoming issue.
Notice that economist "Wolfers" who objected to the recent decade's consensus in this 2007 article? Well, he offers no studies or analysis of his own. Two years later, he penned this paper, and he offers no raw numbers of his own. All he does is attempt to poke holes in what everyone agrees the numbers indicate:
http://users.nber.org/~jwolfers/papers/DeathPenalty(ALER).pdf
Yet Becker (2006) argued that “the preponderance of the evidence does indicate that capital punishment deters.” Joanna Shepherd’s 2004 con-gressional testimony concurred: “In the economics literature in the past decade...there is a very strong consensus...all of the modern economic studies in the past decades have found a deterrent effect.” Paul Rubin (2006) echoed this assessment before the Senate Judiciary Committee claiming that “The literature is easy to summarize: almost all modern studies and all the refereed studies find a significant deterrent effect of capital punishment. Only one study questions these results.”

We provide the emphasis in the Rubin quote because the reference to “one study” is to Donohue and Wolfers (2005), hereinafter “DW”—our own rather critical response to recent death penalty research published in the Stanford Law Review in December 2005. In that paper we evaluated many of the death penalty studies that Rubin deemed to establish the deterrent effect of the death penalty. In each case the foundation for these claims proved to be quite shaky, albeit for varying reasons, including coding errors, inappropriate study designs, improper calculation of standard errors, and reliance on invalid instrumental variables ...
Yep, two years later, four years after that initial "study", he has brought nothing new. He is parroting his own confirmation bias, "We just don't know". It's so easy to pick that out as the feeble defense of an academic who doesn't want to admit which way the wind is blowing. So he clings to, "We don't know."

I think it's especially telling that those who are in the anti camp pretend to be objective or unbiased when they clearly hold a strong opinion, and have a side. Meanwhile, those who present data indicating it is a deterrent don't pretend not to hold a camp. These are those little observations that provide insight into who is being honest with actual, concrete data.

Wolfers cites the collective opinion of "criminologists" (that 88% figure that turns up if you Google). That is how he chose to open his paper. Who cares? That means nothing. That profession is a liberal sinkhole. The majority of experts who are interested in crime from a more conservative or pro-enforcement point of view becomes prosecutors and LEOs, not "criminologists". This latter term describes those whose judicial religion can be summarized in the recent documentary The 13th.

Look at the "Symposium" on the deterrent effect of Capital Punishment in Steven Schavell's Journal, the American Law and Economic Review, who promised he would publish more studies into this correlation in the coming years:
https://academic.oup.com/aler/issue/11/2

Yep, the top "study" he cites isn't a study. It's that review, from Wolfers, and all it does is whine about the indications of those studies. It's the same with the rest of them. It's a bunch of whining about "model uncertainty"; a classic sign that, yes, the data does indicate what they don't like. If it didn't there wouldn't be this whinging about "uncertainty". They would declare the data suggests the opposite.

They are forced to concede that the deterrence effect is "weak". Then they don't want to talk about it anymore. All they have is critique. They don't seem to keen on pursuing those proposed model corrections in future studies to resolve the uncertainty. This is the shape mass concession takes in academia. That "symposium" is an implosion of timid responses from the academic anti-camp. Anyone familiar with academia can spot this for what it is from a mile away.
 
This. I never got all the drug cockatils. Just put someone asleep like for a surgery, then end them
That's because you're a humane decent person. Many of the people in charge of these things are making their decisions based on cronyism with a touch of sadism.
 
I'm not well versed on the bible.. what is the official stance on capital punishment from the church?
Capital punishment was practiced in the Old Testament and was set up by God.

There is not an official stance from the Church. All churches are different.

And I think its one of those things where a society can decide it's own laws.

I personally believe in capital punishment for some offenses. I think it can be good for the perpetrator to know when they will die and that they have a little time to repent and believe before they meet their maker. I also think locking people away for a lifetime is less human.
 
I don't know... Are these guys calling for a repeal of the 8th Amendment's cruel and unusual punishments clause??
Those are subjective words. "Unusual" is ridiculous when it comes to law. OK, let's just yank off everyone's testicles and watch them bleed to death, and suddenly that is "usual". Is it cruel to rape and murder a 7 year old?
 
Those are subjective words. "Unusual" is ridiculous when it comes to law. OK, let's just yank off everyone's testicles and watch them bleed to death, and suddenly that is "usual". Is it cruel to rape and murder a 7 year old?

You are a literal poster-boy for my initial post. lol
 
Capital punishment was practiced in the Old Testament and was set up by God.

When a nation turns away from stoning - the only divinely instituted method for carrying out the death penalty - as the US has unwisely and unspiritually chosen to do, that nation has no one but herself to blame when the curses and calamities of God's judgment come upon her.
 
I view the death penalty less emotionally than some. We should not look at it as "justice" or "punishment". It's just about eliminating threats and predators to our society. I'm 100% pro capital punishment just from a different approach.

If it's just about removal, why not just life sentence then?

That way you don't run into the murder-in-order-to-show-that-you-shouldn't-murder inconsistency and you remove the danger from society.
 
As @Madmick is pointing out, there is a reason that the 8th Amendment is in place which is to prevent the government from imposing unduly harsh penalties on defendants.
How would being sounded to death be unduly to someone who rapes and murders a child? Sounds subjective.
 
Nonsense.
Death Penalty Deters Murders, Studies Say (2007)

Notice that economist "Wolfers" who objected to the recent decade's consensus in this 2007 article? Well, he offers no studies or analysis of his own. Two years later, he penned this paper, and he offers no raw numbers of his own. All he does is attempt to poke holes in what everyone agrees the numbers indicate:
http://users.nber.org/~jwolfers/papers/DeathPenalty(ALER).pdf

Yep, two years later, four years after that initial "study", he has brought nothing new. He is parroting his own confirmation bias, "We just don't know". It's so easy to pick that out as the feeble defense of an academic who doesn't want to admit which way the wind is blowing. So he clings to, "We don't know."

I think it's especially telling that those who are in the anti camp pretend to be objective or unbiased when they clearly hold a strong opinion, and have a side. Meanwhile, those who present data indicating it is a deterrent don't pretend not to hold a camp. These are those little observations that provide insight into who is being honest with actual, concrete data.

Wolfers cites the collective opinion of "criminologists" (that 88% figure that turns up if you Google). That is how he chose to open his paper. Who cares? That means nothing. That profession is a liberal sinkhole. The majority of experts who are interested in crime from a more conservative or pro-enforcement point of view becomes prosecutors and LEOs, not "criminologists". This latter term describes those whose judicial religion can be summarized in the recent documentary The 13th.

Look at the "Symposium" on the deterrent effect of Capital Punishment in Steven Schavell's Journal, the American Law and Economic Review, who promised he would publish more studies into this correlation in the coming years:
https://academic.oup.com/aler/issue/11/2

Yep, the top "study" he cites isn't a study. It's that review, from Wolfers, and all it does is whine about the indications of those studies. It's the same with the rest of them. It's a bunch of whining about "model uncertainty"; a classic sign that, yes, the data does indicate what they don't like. If it didn't there wouldn't be this whinging about "uncertainty". They would declare the data suggests the opposite.

They are forced to concede that the deterrence effect is "weak". Then they don't want to talk about it anymore. All they have is critique. They don't seem to keen on pursuing those proposed model corrections in future studies to resolve the uncertainty. This is the shape mass concession takes in academia. That "symposium" is an implosion of timid responses from the academic anti-camp. Anyone familiar with academia can spot this for what it is from a mile away.

I'm on vacation with family and don't have the time to get into a pro/con discussion right now. Happy to do so at some point in the future, though. I just felt the need to clarify my stance in regard to the method of executiom point as my stance obviously is if the death penalty is unavoidable, it should be focused on efficiently ending life and not be a substitute for torture.
 
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