Teddy Atlas exposing Deontay Wilder

[Cheese]

JJ shitting on Teddy

 

[aries]

Deontay Wilder the great american hope. Well he's pretty untested at this stage of his career so there is a big question mark over how he'd do against a good opponent. I'll guess we'll have to wait and see what happens when the time comes. Imho he's going to fall short with his sloppy technique.

 

[hiphopnazi]

It's well known Charlie Zelenoff exposed Wilder.

 

[mrsenor]

Teddy talks a big talk. As a trainer, he was mediocre at best and is now too concerned with conspiracies in the boxing world to really notice the fighters.

wilders flaws are no conspiracy

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

How come they're in the gym and Wilder is winning championships?

Because Sub-novice level amateurs are 17-34 with no sanctioned bouts on their records. Wilder is winning championships? He holds one major world title (WBC) of the main four and isn't even the consensus #1 ranked guy in the division. Lineal? No. Unified? No. Fighting top competition regularly? No.

Teddy may be a dickhead but he's pointing out the obvious to educate viewers on what mistakes he shouldn't be making at such a high level given Wilder's world titlist status. He could've done it without being a douche but what he pointed out is valid. The delivery in how he pointed that stuff out is the only issue that I see.

 

[Burning Hammer]

How come they're in the gym and Wilder is winning championships?

Most people don't stick with boxing, it's a phase. If you take me as an example, I love boxing, I was good, but I also didn't like the toll it took my shoulder and back after 5 years and left the sport. I also took 3 month rests sometimes to recover. I still have shoulder problems in my left shoulder. Yes I used proper technique and yes I did proper strength and conditioning. When I realized I couldn't play a damn video game and relax after training without icing it for an hour or so I realized it wasn't for me.

Now I just do pro wrestling which is much worse but for some reason it's worth it.

 

[$uicideboy$]

But he always finds a way to win. Wilder seems to get a lot of hate. Especially from the Euro fans.

its hard to find a way to win against chris areola...

 

[Raphael]

Well yours didn't either. It was just a random ad hominem attack on Atlas.

You've used ad hominem incorrectly. He has stated he was never attacking his argument so how could he attack his person to detract from his argument? I don't point this out to be a dick or anything or even to be pedantic, only just so you're aware of the mistake.

 

[stuff jones]

You've used ad hominem incorrectly. He has stated he was never attacking his argument so how could he attack his person to detract from his argument? I don't point this out to be a dick or anything or even to be pedantic, only just so you're aware of the mistake.

Au contraire bonjour. From google.

"(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining".

In any case, lets just enjoy the chance to flummox Seano with some latin, k?

 

[Raphael]

Au contraire bonjour. From google.

"(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining".

In any case, lets just enjoy the chance to flummox Seano with some latin, k?

It's used when a logical fallacy is employed in an argument. If you're just attacking someone that wouldn't be ad hominem. But it's whatever, language evolves.

Edit: If you fancy reading up on it further here's an interesting-(ish) piece- http://laurencetennant.com/bonds/adhominem.html

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

This page covers it all. Read it, comprehend it, master it and then use it in bulletin board battle. But, be warned! Those that can identify these forms of logical fallacies are likely to call you on them unless you care to purposely take the bait; so, always be careful what you catch! ). The most important thing, of course, is to have good clean fun.

Ad hominem

An ad hominem argument is any that attempts to counter another’s claims or conclusions by attacking the person, rather than addressing the argument itself. True believers will often commit this fallacy by countering the arguments of skeptics by stating that skeptics are closed minded. Skeptics, on the other hand, may fall into the trap of dismissing the claims of UFO believers, for example, by stating that people who believe in UFO’s are crazy or stupid.

A common form of this fallacy is also frequently present in the arguments of conspiracy theorists (who also rely heavily on ad-hoc reasoning). For example, they may argue that the government must be lying because they are corrupt.

It should be noted that simply calling someone a name or otherwise making an ad hominem attack is not in itself a logical fallacy. It is only a fallacy to claim that an argument is wrong because of a negative attribute of someone making the argument. (i.e. “John is a jerk.” is not a fallacy. “John is wrong because he is a jerk.” is a logical fallacy.)

The term “poisoning the well” also refers to a form of ad hominem fallacy. This is an attempt to discredit the argument of another by implying that they possess an unsavory trait, or that they are affiliated with other beliefs or people that are wrong or unpopular. A common form of this also has its own name – Godwin’s Law or the reductio ad Hitlerum. This refers to an attempt at poisoning the well by drawing an analogy between another’s position and Hitler or the Nazis.

Logical Fallacies | The Skeptics Guide to the Universe

 

[Seano]

Because Sub-novice level amateurs are 17-34 with no sanctioned bouts on their records. Wilder is winning championships? He holds one major world title (WBC) of the main four and isn't even the consensus #1 ranked guy in the division. Lineal? No. Unified? No. Fighting top competition regularly? No.

Teddy may be a dickhead but he's pointing out the obvious to educate viewers on what mistakes he shouldn't be making at such a high level given Wilder's world titlist status. He could've done it without being a douche but what he pointed out is valid. The delivery in how he pointed that stuff out is the only issue that I see.

OK then, how come Wilder won an Olympic medal and your friends are in the gym?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

OK then, how come Wilder won an Olympic medal and your friends are in the gym?

Why are you assuming that they're my friends? You did know that since the 1952 Olympics 2 bronze medals have been awarded, right? Wilder also was knocked out as an amateur in an international tournament and looked pretty unremarkable in a career that only spanned 35 bouts (record was 30-5). His long reach, height and athleticism served him well there.

 

[Seano]

Why are you assuming that they're my friends? You did know that since the 1952 Olympics 2 bronze medals have been awarded, right? Wilder also was knocked out as an amateur in an international tournament and looked pretty unremarkable. His long reach, height and athleticism served him well there.

You're the one talking about how unknown dudes from the gym are world championship calibre fighters. I'm just wondering why I don't see them on television.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You're the one talking about how unknown dudes from the gym are world championship calibre fighters. I'm just wondering why I don't see them on television.

Check my edit. Again, Sub-novice level amateurs have 0 bouts to their name. If you can't figure out the rest then that's on you. That's BS btw, I never said anyone from the gyms I frequent, especially a sub-novice am, was a world championship caliber fighter. I wouldn't expect any less from you though since you pull this kind of shit out of your ass. Analysts, commentators, fans, media members expect to see a world champion caliber fighter look like one. Is that asking too much of them? I don't think so. He's throwing himself off balance when he punches dude, he's all over the place and reckless. Wilder needs to work on his BOXING fundamentals and his overall technical skills to continue to improve as a fighter, especially now that he's a world titlist.

He needs to start with the basics and prioritize them. He can begin by working on his stance, balance and posture. After that, developing reasonably proficient footwork & positioning, movement & respectable defense. Defense through footwork, by working angles when attacking & retreating (stay off the center line & break off of it when you attack), guard usage for blocking, catching & deflecting shots, parrying, ducking (quick level change usually accompanied with a roll) & dipping, range control for keeping opponents at bay in the first place, head movement (preemptive & reactive inside & outside slips), smothering, etc... with pulling, rolling & relying on reflexes as a last resort. Developing sound punching technique (proper form & mechanics) is necessary in his case especially because there's nothing scientific about it at present and it's certainly a liability when he opens up, even when he's throwing his jab. Keep the damn chin tucked (put a tennis ball under it & drill all day until it becomes habitual), elbows in, eyes on your opponent at all times and your hands up (going back to working behind a guard).

Here's a much longer list that he can strive for as he continues to improve over time.

He needs to get his stance right (again, L×W×H dimensions should be correct with proper foot placement intact), work behind a guard (multiple even for giving different looks & since guards serve different purposes), improve his balance (again), correct posture (again), develop proficient footwork (again, by getting his steps down first), proper punching technique (again, stop telegraphing & become sound), work on transitions (seamlessly between offense to defense & defense to offense), learn to cut the ring off while walking your man down (don't follow them around or simply stalk them), learn proper foot/hand/body & head positioning, fight for head control inside (get it under their chin & create space when in-fighting, position your head over their shoulder & then move it away then back again), work on mobility/foot movement (in & out + lateral movement, tight circling, turning your opponent, etc), work on general defensive responsibility & maintaining it when attacking, learn to control range effectively, make adjustments when necessary (readjust if necessary to counter theirs), learn to fight off the back foot, learn how to take full advantage of your physical attributes, learn how to counter-clinch & shut down holding attempts, learn how to break free from holding efficiently (don't just rip your arms straight back to pull them out), maintain composure (don't get wild & reckless), regulate your pacing to save energy & know when to pick the pace up when your opponent looks to be fading, take the initiative to be first & try to also be last (do both when possible) to get the better of the exchanges, don't give up rounds by being passive/not engaging & look to score even if you're not fully committed to those punches (point fight a very dangerous opponent if necessary using the stick & move/hunt & peck strategy but make sure you get their respect first & as-needed, then repeat), don't give up too much ground to your opponent & look to control the center of the ring (take the center again ASAP if you lose it), practice stealing rounds back that you believe you're losing, gain control back (the flow of the fight) after momentum shifts unfavorably - manage to swing it back in your favor, ability to lead & counter + switch between them (practice both subsequent & simultaneous counters, cross-counter with the jab & rear hand, rock backs, etc), improve ring generalship/ringcraft, develop spatial awareness (understand distance between you & your opponent, the ropes & corners & be able to gauge it well), develop your angular sense (understand how to take angles & actually work off of them from the outside & the inside), learn how to neutralize your opponent & don't fight his fight (fight yours & force them to by imposing your game), enhance your ring vision (part of ring IQ, the ability to read your opponent's next attack), sharpen up your timing when leading/countering/defending, learn how to create openings & break guys down systematically, get your opponent's respect & if you lose it then immediately look to get it back (don't let them start building any momentum), develop basic to intermediate level combination punching, work on several jab variations (develop a stiff authoritative (power) jab to keep guys off of you and/or control range), work on keying off the jab & working the head chest & stomach (they really won't like the chest & stomach), learn how to control their head (head control from all 3 ranges), utilize level changes, develop a body attack & know when to invest in it (try it early & as the fight progresses), mix up offensive variety with combos & single shots (potshotting works too), work the body & head - head & then the body, work on different setups to lay traps for the finish, learn to throw short range straight punches (most fighters don't realize the benefit), develop an active lead hand (educated jab, uppercut, hook), try switch-hitting when sparring and/or utilizing a number of different shifts (advanced), know when to use your physicality (be physical), aim to increase your accuracy & hand speed, aim to increase your foot speed, increase overall versatility by learning to both box & fight (pick your spots intelligently if you're selling out), add to your punch selection & be selective with your shots & their placement, increase ring IQ (learn to think like a technician would), work on fighting from multiple ranges & not just from the outside (working proficiently inside the pocket mid range & when in-fighting), practice working in the clinch & initiating one quickly if you're hurt (natural reaction but some are too slow to get there to recover/survive), find your rhythm but change the tempo & the intensity on your punches from time to time to keep opponents guessing, learn to punch with your opponent instead of just taking turns, look to keep your opponent off balance often and out of position, if you get the chance to blindside your opponent then capitalize on it big, keep them uncomfortable as often as you can throughout the fight, be patient and don't rush your work, don't let them get into their rhythm to start putting anything together, punish them when they try to get off on you, if they do then manage to break their rhythm & force them to reset, add in feints & fakes to your game, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Steve-French]

its hard to find a way to win against chris areola...

He's taken his time to ''develop'' but his resume is right on par with Anthony Joshua's, and everybody blows him.

 

[$uicideboy$]

He's taken his time to ''develop'' but his resume is right on par with Anthony Joshua's, and everybody blows him.

because AJ doesnt do shit like atlas showed wilder doing in the vid

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

@Seano, you see that giant wall of text in post #55 that I typed up? Read it. You don't have to put him under the microscope to see what knowledgeable boxing heads already know. That's the nicest way to say it. I'm really not surprised that his HW record KO streak came to an end when he fought Stiverne. Once he starts fighting top level competition he won't be this beast that you're pretending he is. You'll see when that happens.

 

[Seano]

@Seano, you see that giant wall of text in post #55 that I typed up? Read it. You don't have to put him under the microscope to see what knowledgeable boxing heads already know. That's the nicest way to say it. I'm really not surprised that his HW record KO streak came to an end when he fought Stiverne. Once he starts fighting top level competition he won't be this beast that you're pretending he is. You'll see when that happens.

I actually have been one of the only people who has been saying that I liked the way Wilder had been moved because he was learning on the job. I never said he was a technical master.

That said, I think he's shown real development in some fights.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I actually have been one of the only people who has been saying that I liked the way Wilder had been moved because he was learning on the job. I never said he was a technical master.

That said, I think he's shown real development in some fights.

I took the time to make that long-winded response to you concerning him about the development he still needs. If he can do even a quarter of all that stuff then I will be impressed by his improvement. He got started late in boxing but now he's a world titlist and big things are expected when you win a major world title. There's a standard you're held to that he needs to meet in order to be truly respected by the hardcores. Let's see how he looks when he's fighting the other titleholders. If he doesn't really work on those basics (paragraph before the long wall of text in my post) then he isn't going to improve much more. It'd be like trying to add another story to a house when the foundation isn't sufficient enough to even support that addition.