technique over power.

[The Don]

Every1 likes to shit on Foremans skill, but hes very skillful, hes just not orthodox

Same thing happens to Fedor in MMA where people and even commentators like to shit on his hands because he likes to use alot of long hooks, he has some of the best technical hands in MMA

Hell people even shit on Tysons skill suggesting hes some kind of brawler because he uses alot of hooks, hes one of the most technical HWs of all time

I hope your not putting me in the same boat as those people when I simply pointed out he has made mistakes in the past like every other boxer that has existed.

 

[spacetime]

Every1 likes to shit on Foremans skill, but hes very skillful, hes just not orthodox

Same thing happens to Fedor in MMA where people and even commentators like to shit on his hands because he likes to use alot of long hooks, he has some of the best technical hands in MMA

Hell people even shit on Tysons skill suggesting hes some kind of brawler because he uses alot of hooks, hes one of the most technical HWs of all time

Foreman could get away with anything against most people due to his granite chin and abilities. That's why you should not modell yourself after him because few people have his attributes to get away with it.

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

The first is an overhand right, is it not?

Also, the second GIF is of Leonard! He always throws his hooks in that fashion, almost like how Ali used to throw his hooks when in close. (If you're referring to his flashy flurry)

Also, you can't expect the best to always be on point and do everything by the book, nor should we expect them too. It's such an unrealistic expectation. I'm simply pointing out that Foreman has thrown a wide hook. And in 81 fights I find it hard to believe he has not thrown a wide hook or a single strike with bad form.

Incorrect form will always be incorrect form regardless of who performs it or how high they are in the rankings.

As for the Mayweather GIF, I don't think that's as wide as Foreman's hooks, and I don't think Floyd can make that right hook any narrower even if he wanted too at that distance.

The problem is incorrect form says who, says you? You say its not textbook, which textbook are you talking about? Which author? Where does it say no long hooks? Is it every textbook or just a few? Do different textbooks world class trainers and authors say different things?

Nearly every pro is throwing long hooks, either you or all these pros and their trainers are wrong.

You are wrong

 

[The Don]

Im in no way emotionally



The problem is incorrect form says who, says you? You say its not textbook, which textbook are you talking about? Which author? Where does it say no long hooks? Is it every textbook or just a few? Do different textbooks world class trainers and authors say different things?

Nearly every pro is throwing long hooks, either you or all these pros and their trainers are wrong.

You are wrong

I never said long hooks are wrong. I said wide hooks are. Which Foreman clearly throws.

Also I never said it was textbook. I said it wasn't by the book which is more or less an expression.

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

I never said long hooks are wrong. I said wide hooks are. Which Foreman clearly throws.

Do you even know how to throw a punch? You have to get wide. The body stretches open wide when you punch.

He throws the same wide hooks without making them into overhands also

 

[The Don]

Do you even know how to throw a punch? You have to get wide. The body stretches open wide when you punch.

Yes sir. Long hooks will "stretch open" and widen, but the way Foreman threw the punch on the time stamp was way to wide to be considered correct form.

 

[The Don]

Do you even know how to throw a punch? You have to get wide. The body stretches open wide when you punch.

He throws the same wide hooks without making them into overhands also

I'll reply to this since you edited your original post after I replied to it.

I still don't know how you can throw a wide hook to the point where you are off balance and wide open and still be considered to have maintained proper form whilst throwing it.

Edit: I'm referring to George Foreman and not your GIF

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

Yes sir. Long hooks will "stretch open" and widen, but the way Foreman threw the punch on the time stamp was way to wide to be considered correct form.

No its not.

Anyway I end there you wont listen to reason and you keep getting it wrong

 

[The Don]

No its not.

Anyway I end there you wont listen to reason and you keep getting it wrong

I do listen to reason, I don't know how you jumped to that conclusion. But, it is what it is. To each their own.

 

[Uchi Mata]

one of my pet hates with a lot of boxing trainers is the myth that technique equals power. i have seen way to many people punching bags with speed and "technique" but no power. the lie being that as soon as you try to throw hard the power will automatically be there if the technique is good. the reality is that a lot of people forget everything they have learnt and go back to throwing haymakers the moment they try to hit hard. you see it all the time in low level amateur boxing. punches have to be throw hard in practice to teach the correct kinetic chain. if i told someone to throw a shot put with technique but no force how far do you think it would travel? i am certainly not knocking the importance of technique, just saying technique does not equal power. i have seen people throw better punches when they forget about technique and just throw hard. it's a bit like throwing a rock. there is no magical technique to throwing a rock it is just repetition of motion to increase the coordination required.

This argument comes up a lot in grappling when coaches will say 'don't use strength'. Well, that's obviously bullshit. you have to use strength to get anything done. What you shouldn't do is use stupid strength. Which is to say, you don't get much out of bagwork by going in and just throwing as hard as you can with no attention to technique. In general you should be throwing nearly as hard as you can while maintaining good technique. I do a lot of technical work at lower power, but I always have rounds where I throw hard because as you say it's important to learn to do and develop the kinetic chain and you can't do that just throwing light. Work on your technique, then go throw hard and pay attention to where you're falling apart technically when you up the power, work on that a little lighter, then go back to throwing hard. Do that over and over until you can throw hard with good technique. The key here is that whatever you're doing you have to be thoughtful about your goal. If you're throwing light, you're only doing it to groove good technique before you go back to throwing hard. If you're throwing hard, you're not doing it just to beat up the bag, you're trying to develop power while using the proper motion so you should be self monitoring your technique the whole time. One of the things that drives me crazy as a BJJ coach is people not paying attention to what they're doing on the mat. Why are you there if you're not actively trying to get better? I find bagwork very mentally draining because I try to make sure I'm paying close attention to what I'm doing on every strike and that gets hard as you get tired, but otherwise what's the damn point?

 

[eternaldarkness]

This argument comes up a lot in grappling when coaches will say 'don't use strength'. Well, that's obviously bullshit. you have to use strength to get anything done. What you shouldn't do is use stupid strength. Which is to say, you don't get much out of bagwork by going in and just throwing as hard as you can with no attention to technique. In general you should be throwing nearly as hard as you can while maintaining good technique. I do a lot of technical work at lower power, but I always have rounds where I throw hard because as you say it's important to learn to do and develop the kinetic chain and you can't do that just throwing light. Work on your technique, then go throw hard and pay attention to where you're falling apart technically when you up the power, work on that a little lighter, then go back to throwing hard. Do that over and over until you can throw hard with good technique. The key here is that whatever you're doing you have to be thoughtful about your goal. If you're throwing light, you're only doing it to groove good technique before you go back to throwing hard. If you're throwing hard, you're not doing it just to beat up the bag, you're trying to develop power while using the proper motion so you should be self monitoring your technique the whole time. One of the things that drives me crazy as a BJJ coach is people not paying attention to what they're doing on the mat. Why are you there if you're not actively trying to get better? I find bagwork very mentally draining because I try to make sure I'm paying close attention to what I'm doing on every strike and that gets hard as you get tired, but otherwise what's the damn point?

absolutely excellent post. this is exactly the point i was trying to get at.

 

[AusTosh]

This argument comes up a lot in grappling when coaches will say 'don't use strength'. Well, that's obviously bullshit. you have to use strength to get anything done. What you shouldn't do is use stupid strength. Which is to say, you don't get much out of bagwork by going in and just throwing as hard as you can with no attention to technique. In general you should be throwing nearly as hard as you can while maintaining good technique. I do a lot of technical work at lower power, but I always have rounds where I throw hard because as you say it's important to learn to do and develop the kinetic chain and you can't do that just throwing light. Work on your technique, then go throw hard and pay attention to where you're falling apart technically when you up the power, work on that a little lighter, then go back to throwing hard. Do that over and over until you can throw hard with good technique. The key here is that whatever you're doing you have to be thoughtful about your goal. If you're throwing light, you're only doing it to groove good technique before you go back to throwing hard. If you're throwing hard, you're not doing it just to beat up the bag, you're trying to develop power while using the proper motion so you should be self monitoring your technique the whole time. One of the things that drives me crazy as a BJJ coach is people not paying attention to what they're doing on the mat. Why are you there if you're not actively trying to get better? I find bagwork very mentally draining because I try to make sure I'm paying close attention to what I'm doing on every strike and that gets hard as you get tired, but otherwise what's the damn point?

well said.

my view:

an amateur will punch with his shoulder and rely on his arm and shoulder muscles for 'power'. by this you'll probably just be tense as hell and just exhaust yourself quickly from incorrect breathing.

a trained fighter will punch with impact right before the hit takes place with the power coming from the foot to the hips

to do the above, no matter the strength, you still need to master the right technique in order for those punches to generate the strength/impact you desire.