Teacher's Union Attempt to Remove Founding Canadian Prime Minister's Name from Public Schools

[lfd0311]

Found @KONE's alt. I wonder how long this hateful cunt will last this time.

I like that this is your big take away from this article.

 

[Vagitarian]

Canada's history curriculum consists of mainly teaching students how evil the people who founded Canada are. Canadians are taught to be ashamed of our history. The motion to remove the name John A. MacDonald is hardly surprising.

They shouldn't be proud of the atrocities of their ancestors. I believe as Americans for example, we have a right to be proud of the monumental achievements our country has achieved and to be proud of our identity as Americans. But we also have to learn about the not so great things of our history and be properly ashamed. If you're gonna be proud of achievements you had nothing to do with on the basis of being born in the same country, then you do the same with the atrocities. Nobody's perfect so theres nothing wrong with calling out faults.

Regarding the OP, I disagree with this movement to remove his name because I believe in viewing historical figures in the context of their time. No point in hating Washington for having slaves if the time period endorsed it. We should know he had slaves and not praise it, but whats the point in applying modern day standards? the scary part is, about 100-200 years from now, (if America and human beings and society is still around) we will be relics of the past and the liberals of today will be seen as bigots living in an ancient era. The conservatives might be viewed much worse. Its just the inevitable course of history.

 

[Andy Capp]

I like that this is your big take away from this article.

I was in a hurry.

On topic, I disagree with the teachers but I don't disagree with having the discussion. Let's reach a consensus about when such an action is appropriate and when it's not, whether to remove things like statues to museums or leave them on public display, whether to change memorials, honorifics, etc, because of the opinions of future generations.

I'm not convinced there's merit in the teachers' arguments, but I'm not convinced they're wrong either. A rancorous OP invited rancorous responses like my first post ITT, but if there wasn't such a huge over-reaction by opponents, it would be easier to have an intelligent discussion about the issue. To wit, renaming buildings and shit like that is a different level of who gives a fuck compared to purpose built monuments dedicated to an individual because the latter are generally considered works of art. (But what I don't get is any opposition to moving them to museums where possible if there is general agreement that public display is inappropriate.)

Sticking to just the names of, in this case, schools, but buildings in general, to me renaming them just isn't that big a deal and it seems to me as well that it happens all the time. On the other hand, Sir John A was literally the face of a nation for so long, it seems foolhardy to try to erase him now. There's a craft beer in my city named after him FFS.

The discussion still needs to be had and it shouldn't be limited to whining like I see in here all the time.

 

[Andy Capp]

Boom. And there it is. Listen up Lolberals, this is why you get so much push back from the Right on Confederate Statues. Because after you get that, you'll go after anyone who owned slaves, then after anyone who fought against the Natives. Because you people never, ever stop with your bullshit.

Or how about, any time any sort of issue of fairness is raised your lot over-react like it's a nightmare scenario from a movie and then everyone reacts in kind and it turns into a mountain of bullshit. When everyone starts shouting no one listens.

 

[Andy Capp]

Canada's history curriculum consists of mainly teaching students how evil the people who founded Canada are. Canadians are taught to be ashamed of our history. The motion to remove the name John A. MacDonald is hardly surprising.

From what do you draw this conclusion? Because that sure as hell isn't true any time I talk to anyone about Canadian history.

 

[Andy Capp]

You're weak. I never saw Kone say anything hateful

LOL. You're weak-minded. I've established that many times in the past but I guess I need to do so again. He got banned for that very reason. Don't defend that screwball.

 

[lfd0311]

Or how about, any time any sort of issue of fairness is raised your lot over-react like it's a nightmare scenario from a movie and then everyone reacts in kind and it turns into a mountain of bullshit. When everyone starts shouting no one listens.

First off, what "lot" do I belong to? Secondly, where exactly, in your mind, are groups like ANTIFA and people who spraypaint "F*CK WHITE PEOPLE" on everything concerned with fairness? Lastly, you are correct. The major problem in this country is that everyone is shouting and nobody is listening.

 

[TheFirstEMP]

This is what happens when mental disorders go untreated.

 

[lfd0311]

I was in a hurry.

On topic, I disagree with the teachers but I don't disagree with having the discussion. Let's reach a consensus about when such an action is appropriate and when it's not, whether to remove things like statues to museums or leave them on public display, whether to change memorials, honorifics, etc, because of the opinions of future generations.

The teachers are being irrational goofs who aren't concerned with being offended. They've found that being proffessionally offended is a way for them to be in power. That needs to be quashed and not emboldened.

If we're talking about specifically Confederate Statues, there isn't really a reason that I can see for them to be on Federal Property, and there is no reason for people to get wound up over putting them in museums, which is absolutely the appropriate place for something if you're concerned with preservation of history.

I'm not convinced there's merit in the teachers' arguments, but I'm not convinced they're wrong either. A rancorous OP invited rancorous responses like my first post ITT, but if there wasn't such a huge over-reaction by opponents, it would be easier to have an intelligent discussion about the issue. To wit, renaming buildings and shit like that is a different level of who gives a fuck compared to purpose built monuments dedicated to an individual because the latter are generally considered works of art. (But what I don't get is any opposition to moving them to museums where possible if there is general agreement that public display is inappropriate.)

I don't think they're concerned with right and wrong. This man is essentially Canada's George Washington. To remove him for fighting in the war that created the very land they live in is so far beyond preposterous that it isn't worth giving objective examination.

 

[jefferz]

Canada's history curriculum consists of mainly teaching students how evil the people who founded Canada are. Canadians are taught to be ashamed of our history. The motion to remove the name John A. MacDonald is hardly surprising.

How are those canoe sheds coming along?

 

[Andy Capp]

First off, what "lot" do I belong to? Secondly, where exactly, in your mind, are groups like ANTIFA and people who spraypaint "F*CK WHITE PEOPLE" on everything concerned with fairness? Lastly, you are correct. The major problem in this country is that everyone is shouting and nobody is listening.

There's a lot to unpack there. I'll take your questions out of order.
The mention of ANTIFA here is irrelevant. The violent membership of such groups aren't left or right wing, they're anarchists. They aren't sjw's or libtards, just plain old every day trouble makers. Fuck them. All these groups that have violent wings to them, everyone just needs to stand together and tell them all to get fucked and then ignore them, stop giving them attention altogether. There needs to be a public campaign against it. They won't ever go away completely because there's always going to be assholes, but you can shut them up by presenting a united front. In any case, they're irrelevant to any discussion about social justice causes. They're just scum of the earth and should be treated like a criminal organization if it can be proved they're engaging in organized violence.

Your lot, as I said in my previous post, is this large contingent of mostly right wingers who fly off the handle at every suggestion someone might be getting fucked over and is looking for redress. It's the "enough already crowd." It's the "I got where I am by hard work so fuck them if they can't take a little unfair treatment IF THERE IS ANY DAMMIT" lot." FWIW I see you as barely dipping a toe into the same water as the crowd I am mostly talking about. I certainly don't see you in the same light as the banned user to whom I referred earlier or the one I quoted.

 

[Andy Capp]

I don't think they're concerned with right and wrong. This man is essentially Canada's George Washington. To remove him for fighting in the war that created the very land they live in is so far beyond preposterous that it isn't worth giving objective examination.

I disagree with that last part. It's a great test case to fully open up the discussion and turn a slippery slope into a skate park.

 

[splendica]

The left is disgusting.

There's no such thing as the past and letting bygones be bygones. No forgiveness. Bunch of hypocrites. It will never end. If there's not pushback they'll be eventually calling for retroactive punishments and even death for those with European decent. And I doubt that'll be enough. Hateful, vengeful, covetous, narcissistic bunch bent on the destruction of civilization.

 

[Andy Capp]

That is 100%, exactly it. They don't care about the issue by any stretch of the imagination. They care about being outraged.

I strongly disagree with this as well. In the earlier post you said the right pushes back "because you never stop..."

The problem with that is this:
In the past, there were much larger issues of fair treatment that needed to be addressed, discrimination based on skin colour, for example, and while these larger issues are far from solved at this point, enough progress has been made to give voice to other concerns. I don't see anything wrong with trying to help people address their concerns. I disagree with the knee-jerk reactions of a lot of people on both sides, and I agree a lot of, I guess you'd call it "liberalism gone wrong" is ridiculous enough that it is a concern. But expressing outrage at the idea of even having the discussion on a new issue smacks of arrogance.

 

[lfd0311]

There's a lot to unpack there. I'll take your questions out of order.
The mention of ANTIFA here is irrelevant. The violent membership of such groups aren't left or right wing, they're anarchists. They aren't sjw's or libtards, just plain old every day trouble makers. Fuck them. All these groups that have violent wings to them, everyone just needs to stand together and tell them all to get fucked and then ignore them, stop giving them attention altogether. There needs to be a public campaign against it. They won't ever go away completely because there's always going to be assholes, but you can shut them up by presenting a united front. In any case, they're irrelevant to any discussion about social justice causes. They're just scum of the earth and should be treated like a criminal organization if it can be proved they're engaging in organized violence..

And there is the fundamental problem. The Left won't do that. At the very least the Mainstream Media won't do it. Bill Maher actually gets called a Right Winger for calling out ANTIFA on their nonsense. That's the state of political culture in this country.

Your lot, as I said in my previous post, is this large contingent of mostly right wingers who fly off the handle at every suggestion someone might be getting fucked over and is looking for redress. It's the "enough already crowd." It's the "I got where I am by hard work so fuck them if they can't take a little unfair treatment IF THERE IS ANY DAMMIT" lot." FWIW I see you as barely dipping a toe into the same water as the crowd I am mostly talking about. I certainly don't see you in the same light as the banned user to whom I referred earlier or the one I quoted.

I'm a Moderate, for the most part. I'm very Conservative on some issues, very Liberal on others, just like most people. This culture of "I'm offended by it, destroy it" is getting on the nerves of many Liberals who aren't far out progressive crazies. That's the group that has gotten out of control and has far, far too much power.

 

[SammyPops]

Surprised this didn't happen sooner for Canada. Has Trudeau gotten down on his knees for Natives yet?

Our right wing former PM did this already.

 

[lfd0311]

I disagree with that last part. It's a great test case to fully open up the discussion and turn a slippery slope into a skate park.

That's where we're going. It started with Confederate Statues. Some people mockingly suggested that next it would be Washington and Jefferson because they owned slaves. I suggested earlier this week that we'd be going after statues of famous Indian fighters in Ohio, Indiana and Kentucky because of oppression. Not even a week later and we have people on the Left going after Washington and now these people in Canada going after this man because he fought Indians. One week. Not even. You should probably clue into the fact that it isn't the Right turning that slippery slope into that skate park. It's the Left. It's the professionally outraged children who aren't concerned with the actual issue but who have discovered there is power in being offended in today's society. If your only means of control is outrage, if you're constantly getting your way through outrage, you can't just stop being outraged once you get your way. You have to move on and find something else, no matter how mundane or silly, to be outraged about, to scream "LET'S TEAR THIS DOWN!!". Otherwise you stop getting your way, and you stop being in power. Ain't nobody got time for that.

 

[Andy Capp]

The left is disgusting.

There's no such thing as the past and letting bygones be bygones. No forgiveness. Bunch of hypocrites. It will never end. If there's not pushback they'll be eventually calling for retroactive punishments and even death for those with European decent. And I doubt that'll be enough. Hateful, vengeful, covetous, narcissistic bunch bent on the destruction of civilization.

See, the above, and your own generalization of "the left" are what I am talking about.

And there is the fundamental problem. The Left won't do that. At the very least the Mainstream Media won't do it. Bill Maher actually gets called a Right Winger for calling out ANTIFA on their nonsense. That's the state of political culture in this country.



I'm a Moderate, for the most part. I'm very Conservative on some issues, very Liberal on others, just like most people. This culture of "I'm offended by it, destroy it" is getting on the nerves of many Liberals who aren't far out progressive crazies. That's the group that has gotten out of control and has far, far too much power.

Then why do you join all these other clowns in spitting this term "the Left" like it describes everyone who is even slightly sympathetic/empathetic to whatever issue it is people like the above are whining about this week? For that matter, I'll ask again, what constitutes "the left" these days, anyway? How do I know if I am left. Will someone mail me a flag?

As you said, most people side differently ideologically depending upon the issue, being more or less moderate. So why generalize with "the Left does" this and "the left will never do" that? It's facile and stupid. How is anyone supposed to respond to that except with more stupid generalizations about how "the Right does" this or that?

Regarding your last post, partially agree, but outrage in return doesn't seem to achieve anything. To me, the biggest reason for all this is the rise of social media bubbles of confirmation bias/echo chambers where all these ideas get whipped up into an outrage frenzy. To combat that, we just need bigger bubbles to encompass them and spread a more reasonable message, say if a much larger organization than Breitbart were to co-opt their tactics but for the greater good.

Our right wing former PM did this already.

Not a single government has done anything worth a fuck but lie to them in my entire lifetime.

 

[lfd0311]

See, the above, and your own generalization of "the left" are what I am talking about.
Then why do you join all these other clowns in spitting this term "the Left" like it describes everyone who is even slightly sympathetic/empathetic to whatever issue it is people like the above are whining about this week? For that matter, I'll ask again, what constitutes "the left" these days, anyway? How do I know if I am left. Will someone mail me a flag?

As you said, most people side differently ideologically depending upon the issue, being more or less moderate. So why generalize with "the Left does" this and "the left will never do" that? It's facile and stupid. How is anyone supposed to respond to that except with more stupid generalizations about how "the Right does" this or that?

Regarding your last post, partially agree, but outrage in return doesn't seem to achieve anything. To me, the biggest reason for all this is the rise of social media bubbles of confirmation bias/echo chambers where all these ideas get whipped up into an outrage frenzy. To combat that, we just need bigger bubbles to encompass them and spread a more reasonable message, say if a much larger organization than Breitbart were to co-opt their tactics but for the greater good.

Not a single government has done anything worth a fuck but lie to them in my entire lifetime.

Essentially "The Left" has become the far Left Progressive movement that is unwilling to see anyone who disagrees with them as anything but their enemy? Dave Rubin? Nope, not a Liberal. Totally a Conservative. Bill Maher? Him too. Why? Because they had the audacity to suggest that Conservatives have a right to speak. I watched a video recently where Nancy Pelosi went to some College on the West Coast and was asked about the economy by a young Bernie Supporter and she actually had to go into great detail in describing how we're a Capitalist Society and always will be. Nancy. Pelosi. Defending Capitalism. Think about that for a second.

 

[SammyPops]

See, the above, and your own generalization of "the left" are what I am talking about.
Then why do you join all these other clowns in spitting this term "the Left" like it describes everyone who is even slightly sympathetic/empathetic to whatever issue it is people like the above are whining about this week? For that matter, I'll ask again, what constitutes "the left" these days, anyway? How do I know if I am left. Will someone mail me a flag?

As you said, most people side differently ideologically depending upon the issue, being more or less moderate. So why generalize with "the Left does" this and "the left will never do" that? It's facile and stupid. How is anyone supposed to respond to that except with more stupid generalizations about how "the Right does" this or that?

Regarding your last post, partially agree, but outrage in return doesn't seem to achieve anything. To me, the biggest reason for all this is the rise of social media bubbles of confirmation bias/echo chambers where all these ideas get whipped up into an outrage frenzy. To combat that, we just need bigger bubbles to encompass them and spread a more reasonable message, say if a much larger organization than Breitbart were to co-opt their tactics but for the greater good.

Not a single government has done anything worth a fuck but lie to them in my entire lifetime.

Harper said sorry.