teachers have to get second job in oklahoma

[zebby23]

Yea , most of the returns I did were for elementary and middle school teachers.

They averaged between 33k - 38K.

Ya thats a joke. Arguably one oft he most important and difficult jobs you can think of and they make peanuts.

 

[FacePunch]

Yea, but seriously - Fuck Oklahoma.

 

[Andy Capp]

"A deepening budget crisis here has forced schools across the Sooner State to make painful decisions.

But funding for classrooms has been shrinking for years in this deep-red state as lawmakers have cut taxes, slicing away hundreds of millions of dollars in annual revenue in what some Oklahomans consider a cautionary tale about the real-life consequences of the small-government approach favored by Republican majorities in Washington and statehouses nationwide.

Democrats helped pass bipartisan income tax cuts from 2004 to 2008. Republicans — who have controlled the legislature since 2009 and governorship since 2011 — have cut income taxes further and also significantly lowered taxes on oil and gas production."

Story: https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...1f359183e8c_story.html?utm_term=.37c86af1853b

YAY for small government?

 

[nac386]

I'm torn on it. They get a ton of vacation and pretty great benefits.

I'm not OK with just saying teachers deserve shitloads of money. There are a lot of bad teachers.

This conversation gets twisted a bit because teacher pay relies so heavily on where they work. There are places where teachers are paid absolutely dreadful salaries, and in those places it is almost criminal how unfairly they are compensated. But then there are places where teachers are paid very respectably for a 10-month job. Depending on which group you are talking about, the conversation is going to be a lot different.

There are a lot of bad workers in every field. Teachers are sometimes protected better, which becomes a problem because bad teachers remain bad teachers for many years.

I think teachers should make significantly more, but should also be held to a higher standard of competency and it should be easier to fire bad teachers. That would attract even more talent to the field, and weed out bad teachers.

 

[nac386]

Terrible..

I have done personal taxes for teachers ...and yea , the conventional wisdom is accurate. They make shit.

Often underpaid and often underappreciated ...

Teachers are one of the many unsung heroes

I just looked up Seattle teacher's salary scale and it is terrible compared to some areas of Maryland. That is strange to me.

A first year teacher here makes $50,000. I think that is very respectable for a 10-month job, with benefits, and vacation time.

 

[MMAViewer]

I live in Denver and the schools are so underfunded we have to do fundraisers through the parents and school board to be able to pay for our music and art teachers. Some schools in lower income areas can't raise the money and go without music, art and physical ed teachers or they have a travelijng teacher once or twice per week. The rural schools do better because the schools get more funding due to property tax revenue. Kids without rich parents get horribly neglected in their education at no fault of their own.

 

[Rational Poster]

4 days seems to work.

http://neatoday.org/2016/01/14/four-day-school-week-pro-con/

If you know of any research into 1 day school weeks improving performance, it could be up for debate.

Chinese students have 6 day school weeks and are in school 8am to 3pm.

They outperform our students almost everywhere.

 

[tehend]

Chinese students have 6 day school weeks and are in school 8am to 3pm.

They outperform our students almost everywhere.

They're also getting driven to suicide a lot.

 

[Rational Poster]

They're also getting driven to suicide a lot.

Suicide is the #3 cause of death for Americans aged 15-24.

 

[tehend]

Suicide is the #3 cause of death for Americans aged 15-24.

Is massive societal pressure to excel in school a significant factor in those?

 

[Rational Poster]

Is massive societal pressure to excel in school a significant factor in those?

Probably just that they're idiots because our schools suck.

 

[zebby23]

I just looked up Seattle teacher's salary scale and it is terrible compared to some areas of Maryland. That is strange to me.

A first year teacher here makes $50,000. I think that is very respectable for a 10-month job, with benefits, and vacation time.

not to mention they get 2 and a half months off

 

[Rod1]

Cant they just pass a ballot initiative to repeal said law?

 

[Seano]

This conversation gets twisted a bit because teacher pay relies so heavily on where they work. There are places where teachers are paid absolutely dreadful salaries, and in those places it is almost criminal how unfairly they are compensated. But then there are places where teachers are paid very respectably for a 10-month job. Depending on which group you are talking about, the conversation is going to be a lot different.

There are a lot of bad workers in every field. Teachers are sometimes protected better, which becomes a problem because bad teachers remain bad teachers for many years.

I think teachers should make significantly more, but should also be held to a higher standard of competency and it should be easier to fire bad teachers. That would attract even more talent to the field, and weed out bad teachers.

Pay for teachers should be merit based. That said, I don't believe teachers should be retiring at 35 either. I think our place on the world stage in regards to education nullifies a lot of the underpaid arguments. I don't get rewarded when I do a sub par job.

 

[nac386]

Pay for teachers should be merit based. That said, I don't believe teachers should be retiring at 35 either. I think our place on the world stage in regards to education nullifies a lot of the underpaid arguments. I don't get rewarded when I do a sub par job.

How do you prove merit? Test scores do not only reflect the work put in by teachers. The best teacher in the entire world would struggle to get kids in Baltimore City to pass standardized tests, and a crappy teacher could get a wealthier school in the county to pass with flying colors. Proving quality teaching is next to impossible to do, outside of basic observational evaluation by school administrators.

Teachers are the educational system's workhorses, they put in all the work. But they do not choose the students, they do not choose the parents, they do not choose the curriculum, they do not choose the rules, etc. So I do not think it's fair to place a heavy blame teachers for America's underperforming students. There are too many other factors.

 

[Seano]

How do you prove merit? Test scores do not only reflect the work put in by teachers. The best teacher in the entire world would struggle to get kids in Baltimore City to pass standardized tests, and a crappy teacher could get a wealthier school in the county to pass with flying colors. Proving quality teaching is next to impossible to do, outside of basic observational evaluation by school administrators.

Teachers are the educational system's workhorses, they put in all the work. But they do not choose the students, they do not choose the parents, they do not choose the curriculum, they do not choose the rules, etc. So I do not think it's fair to place a heavy blame teachers for America's underperforming students. There are too many other factors.

Its pretty easy. A teacher's job is to teach your kids. Grades reflect this. Its the teachers job to get through to a kid.

Also, the whining from teachers is another thing that rubs me the wrong way. Teachers know exactly what they will get and will get for years to come when they are hired. Their paycheck is just part of a package deal they get when they take the job. No one else gets 4 months of vacation a year. The retirement benefits are generally excellent too.

 

[plataoplombo]

if 4 days is superior why not make it 1?

Hopefully that will crossover to the work week.

 

[nac386]

Its pretty easy. A teacher's job is to teach your kids. Grades reflect this. Its the teachers job to get through to a kid.

Teachers assign grades. They can assign any grade that they want. If you based pay on grades, everybody is getting an A.

If you mean test scores, then you are basically saying that teachers who teach in rich areas should be paid really well for their relatively easy job. Teachers who teach in poor areas should be paid shit, for that incredibly difficult job. Literally nobody would teach in any American city.

I can't think of a single job with a salary based on that level of randomness. Do Doctors not get paid if a patient does not survive? One of the most famous cancer hospitals in the country is MD Anderson. I have a friend who works there and she said you are just surrounded by death every day. Should those doctors and nurses be fired or lose their pay?

Also, the whining from teachers is another thing that rubs me the wrong way. Teachers know exactly what they will get and will get for years to come when they are hired. Their paycheck is just part of a package deal they get when they take the job. No one else gets 4 months of vacation a year. The retirement benefits are generally excellent too.

4-months of vacation? Where is that? Sign me up.

 

[Iceberg Slim]

How do you prove merit? Test scores do not only reflect the work put in by teachers.

I think the key would be testing the kids throughout the year. Compare them to their own previous tests, instead of comparing to a state average or something like that. Even the weaker students should improve over time. Don't let the kids find out their scores impact teachers pay though...

 

[nac386]

I think the key would be testing the kids throughout the year. Compare them to their own previous tests, instead of comparing to a state average or something like that. Even the weaker students should improve over time. Don't let the kids find out their scores impact teachers pay though...

That works to some extent. But you still run into the problem of super high achieving kids having very little room to improve, and very low achieving kids having very little motivation or ability to improve.

Like I said, replace the teacher with a doctor, and replace the students with patients.

Imagine telling a cancer doctor that he/she was going to be paid based on whether or not the patients survived or showed improvement. There are just too many aspects that are out of the doctor's control to base salary on outcome.