Teachers Are OVERpaid

[Amerikuracana]

Government workers are to be worshipped...

But seriously, teachers do fine.

 

[Shoemaker]

i am fine with overpaying teachers because i want the best people to be attracted to teaching rather than other careers

i just believe they should have more accountability and oversight.

Absolutely, and not just for the one-sided partisan reasons you mentioned. I also went to school in California and had a slightly different experience than you. The high school history teacher was also the athletic director and a complete joke as an educator. He had two assignments that he handed out; either "read chapter n and outline it" or "watch this movie and take notes". Every day, one of those two things would be the assignment. After spending about 10 minutes getting the class settled and assigning the work, he would leave the classroom for the remainder of the period and go to his office down the hall. That was every single day. He also once let kids buy their grades; there was a school-wide food drive and the homeroom with the most donations got an award. He was competitive and wanted the award badly, so he offered unlimited extra credit for bringing in food. Most of the class would've ended the semester with over 100% even if they completely failed the final.

The physics teacher was also abysmal, insisting on letting us all know God's take on the subject after we got through the textbook. He also let kids run the classroom; during the semester, he let us watch the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy just because the kids pressured him. I wrote a letter to the school board because I wanted to learn physics. Nothing ever happened.

These people should not be aloud to be educators, and there should be some system in place to weed them out.

 

[Slick_36]

see...comments like this just show that you should have never bothered to make this thread. you dont know what youre talking about. you dont know what teachers do, you just think you do because you sat through classes.

you can be albert einstein, but if you cant explain physics to another person, then all your knowledge on the subject is useless in this context. in the educational field, its called the "expert blind spot." its actually REALLY difficult for most people who know something, to put themselves back in a place of ignorance to see the problem from the student's perspective.

ideally, youd like a science teacher trained and educated traditionally in the scientific field that theyre teaching, but without classes on teaching strategy/theory, youre taking a big risk. most people cannot just roll into a class and effectively teach something simply because they know a lot about what theyre teaching.

it would be almost like suggesting that if youre an expert on anatomy and physiology, that you should easily be able to perform surgeries. no.

Ah, so there's a name for it. I had a physics teacher in high school who was a retired physicist. Brilliant guy and really cool to talk to, but I learned nothing in that class. Initially the students would ask him to clarify and he would just run through a new equation without explaining anything. Eventually it became a game to people to just get him off track and on to an irrelevant topic. Which was hard to object to because then I at least possibly learned something.

 

[Pwent]

Absolutely, and not just for the one-sided partisan reasons you mentioned. I also went to school in California and had a slightly different experience than you. The high school history teacher was also the athletic director and a complete joke as an educator. He had two assignments that he handed out; either "read chapter n and outline it" or "watch this movie and take notes". Every day, one of those two things would be the assignment. After spending about 10 minutes getting the class settled and assigning the work, he would leave the classroom for the remainder of the period and go to his office down the hall. That was every single day. He also once let kids buy their grades; there was a school-wide food drive and the homeroom with the most donations got an award. He was competitive and wanted the award badly, so he offered unlimited extra credit for bringing in food. Most of the class would've ended the semester with over 100% even if they completely failed the final.

The physics teacher was also abysmal, insisting on letting us all know God's take on the subject after we got through the textbook. He also let kids run the classroom; during the semester, he let us watch the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy just because the kids pressured him. I wrote a letter to the school board because I wanted to learn physics. Nothing ever happened.

These people should not be aloud to be educators, and there should be some system in place to weed them out.

exactly, the incentives should be high because we want the best talent

but then they should also be held to the same standards as other high paying jobs in the private sector

 

[JonnyRingo84]

Ah, so there's a name for it. I had a physics teacher in high school who was a retired physicist. Brilliant guy and really cool to talk to, but I learned nothing in that class. Initially the students would ask him to clarify and he would just run through a new equation without explaining anything. Eventually it became a game to people to just get him off track and on to an irrelevant topic. Which was hard to object to because then I at least possibly learned something.

yea its more noticeable with math and science teachers.

but history/civics teachers can have the same problem, and i dont think its as easily picked up on by the students.

 

[Pwent]

I'm no economist, but... If you increase pay you increase the demand to be a teacher and in turn make the field more competitive. And through competition you will get a better product.

you get a better product if the person making the purchasing decision wants/can select the better product

if they just let anyone do it, and dont hold them accountable when they fuck up, it defeats the purpose

 

[JonnyRingo84]

exactly, the incentives should be high because we want the best talent

but then they should also be held to the same standards as other high paying jobs in the private sector

teachers should be evaluated, and held to high standards. id guess about 1/3 of the teachers ive seen will be totally worthless if you dont monitor them.

but

its complicated, because teaching is not like a business. the famous example is of a pie company. lets say you make pies, and one of your suppliers sends you rotten blueberries. what will you do? get rid of them and bitch at the supplier, or just find a new supplier. if a public school teacher is sent rotten blueberries (troubled kids), they cannot be sent back. you have to make the best pie that you can with them.

 

[Pwent]

teachers should be evaluated, and held to high standards. id guess about 1/3 of the teachers ive seen will be totally worthless if you dont monitor them.

but

its complicated, because teaching is not like a business. the famous example is of a pie company. lets say you make pies, and one of your suppliers sends you rotten blueberries. what will you do? get rid of them and bitch at the supplier, or just find a new supplier. if a public school teacher is sent rotten blueberries (troubled kids), they cannot be sent back. you have to make the best pie that you can with them.

that could be an excuse for a single semester or year, or if you only judge by the performance of the children. but if the teacher sucks consistently for a few years, they gotta go

if the problem is "shitty kids" they should bring someone in who can deal with shitty kids and make the pay worth it to be selective about it

if one of my sales people gets 0 sales every month and says "i cant do it because all my customers are assholes", then i would replace them with someone who can deal with assholes

 

[Slick_36]

yea its more noticeable with math and science teachers.

but history/civics teachers can have the same problem, and i dont think its as easily picked up on by the students.

I have always had a voracious appetite for history of any kind. I would have thrived in a class like that, probably did once or twice and didn't realize it. Problem with advanced math and science is that it's not something you really grow up learning like history or English. You're kind of thrown in to the deep end and you need to know exactly what you're doing and why, on top of all the variables themselves. Missing the first step will throw off everything thereafter, where as history or English is cumulative.

 

[Slick_36]

that could be an excuse for a single semester or year, or if you only judge by the performance of the children. but if the teacher sucks consistently for a few years, they gotta go

if the problem is "shitty kids" they should bring someone in who can deal with shitty kids and make the pay worth it to be selective about it

if one of my sales people gets 0 sales every month and says "i cant do it because all my customers are assholes", then i would replace them with someone who can deal with assholes

Yeah, if there's really such a toxic student body, then there's something wrong with the way we're approaching them. Of course everything starts at home though, and some communities have been decimated because of the war on drugs.

 

[s karlyle]

<{CMPALM}>

Didn't know the main gauge for intelligence was grammar.... From what I understand Einstein initially struggled with speech and grammar. So I guess he deserves a face palm as well lol!

 

[spamking]

If you don't understand what the definition of "beating" is, that's on you not me. You don't get to arbitrarily change the definitions of words to suit your desires. If you paddle a kid you are beating them with a piece of shaped wood. It's that simple.

Oh boo hoo . . . I'm not changing anything. If you're too ignorant to understand that . . . well, that's on you. Context is key. A swat on the butt is NOT a beating. Heck, 2 or 3 swats on the butt is NOT a beating. A dozen? Well, yeah, that's a freaking beating.

See the difference?

I'm not telling you what you can or cannot do with your kids. I'm just telling you that you're a fucking ignorant hypocrite if you're a Christian who beats your kids for discipline because you're a weak parent who can't control a child without causing them physical harm.

What do you know about being a Christian to even form an opinion? Absolutely nothing.

 

[King of Fists]

anyone intelligent enough to be a good teacher is already working in a different field making more money, unless they have a passion for teaching that overrides money. Which means there is already a shortage of good teachers due to inadequate pay.

 

[rj144]

The teachers I know recycle their lesson plan every year, so aside from grading papers which only takes as long as you want it to take, there's not too much work. Sure, there's occasional meetings, and parent-teacher interviews, but given that they have summer vacation, they work less than the average person.

I'm a science instructor at a university. Every single week of every semester, I write completely new homework and quiz questions because if I don't, the solutions will eventually be on the internet and just copied semester after semester. Writing these things is an absolute bitch. I have to come up with the questions, and code them into an online Learning Management System so that each assignment is different, and then I have to proof them. I do this every single week and then every few weeks, I write a test. I don't use test banks and 85 to 95% of those questions are new as well every semester.

Then I have review sessions every week where I answer questions and give them hints on homework problems. Then, I write full step by step solutions to all the homework problems and quizzes and make a video explanation as well that I put online.

I'm not the only one in my college that does too. I'm not phoning anything in... well maybe at the very end of the semester and I'm burnt out.

This is just a homework assignment from 1 week:

https://app.box.com/s/9geii9u6flg00z0u218vorem4q4yp6tg

 

[rj144]

It's true I work at a college. The full time teachers here are doing 30 hours a week 9 months a year and earn 6 figures. They also get over time. We're short now so come teachers are working 40+ hours. All hours above 30 is considered overtime which is 1.5x pay. Part time is 15 hours. So the teachers who are working 40 hours are basically getting 2x pay or 200k a year.

I'm not a teacher but I have to work 40 hours a week to be considered full time. 20 hours is considered part time and 15 is considered exempt or temporary which don't qualify for any benefits.

They literally work half as much as me or any normal full timers.
40 hours x 52 weeks = 2080 hours a year
30x36=1080 hours a year
Both are considered full time....If I work 1080 hours a year, I'd be considered a part time. Teachers have some of the best benefits. And they're still complaining about being overworked, underpaid and yaddy yada

Where do you work, because I'm applying? I teacher at a state university and what you're describing is miles away from our compensation... not even close.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

In Florida you only need a bachelor's, but you need a master's degree in your subject area if you want to teach dual enrollment. I feel like I need to get one, even though it's annoying. I think the idea that you need a master's in math to teach Trigonometry/Elementary Statistics/Calculus is flat out nonsense (especially for someone with an engineering degree who has probably worked thousands of triangle/calculus problems).

My cousin lives in Florida. He went to school for Civil Engineering. After college he couldn't find a job in that field, so he applied at the high school he went to for a position as math teacher and got hired.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Didn't know the main gauge for intelligence was grammar.... From what I understand Einstein initially struggled with speech and grammar. So I guess he deserves a face palm as well lol!

If you're going to criticize someone else for being stupid you better double check your writing so you don't come off as the stupid one.

 

[Rob_M.]

I wasn't suggesting that. But a higher barrier of entry would certainly help. My GF has a friend that is now teaching math to elementary school kids. This girl literally could not figure out 12x12 in her head, and thinks that the metric and imperial systems are things I made up. That girl does not deserve to be a teacher.

When nobody wants to teach, frankly because it sucks, they have to do something to get teachers. Lowering the bar is one of them.

 

[CableandThanos]

Yeah, clearly tge USA just has a problem with having too many quality educators.

Lowering the pay will fix that.

AND RAISING THE PAY $10,000 WILL HELP?

Look, ever since women have been allowed more jobs in the workplace, education has gone down hill. It use to be all the best and brightest went into teaching and nursing. Now that they can go anywhere (not saying this is a bad thing) they are going to bigger and better jobs. Now instead of A students going into education you have your B- and c students going in because it is a job that is basically impossible to get fired from unless you sex up the kids.

That along with the change in attitude of parenting that school is nothing but a glorified day care, has been the downfall.

Yep I said it, I blame women lib.

Come at me dawg!!

 

[luckyshot]

I sort of agree.

My main problem is tenure. Most teachers get burnt out, they shouldn't be guaranteed a job just cause they've been doing it forever.

Also it's sad, my son complains about miserable teachers and they were the same cunts I had to deal with. If you hate kids and can't create a positive environment then you shouldn't be a teacher

That's not tenure, it's ineffective administration.

It is a misconception that tenure means a teacher can't be fired. It just means that, unless a teacher breaks a law, there are procedures that have to be followed.

It is an administration's job to effectively evaluate their staff and take action to remove underperforming teachers when necessary.