Teachers Are OVERpaid

There is a process to fire underperforming teachers with tenure, yes.

Basically, an administrator has to tell a teacher why he feels she is underperforming, establish a metric of improvement, and offer some coaching or training to that teacher. If the administrator does this and the teacher doesn't improve, they can be fired.

It's not an unreasonable process given the somewhat subjective nature of "good" teaching. The thing is, it makes more work for the administrators, and they have to be willing to rock the boat.

So, tenure isn't really the problem; administrative inertia is.

Also, remember that a teacher can be let go at will before he or she has tenure. That means the administration gets a four or five year test drive to decide if a teacher has "it" or not. Lots of underperforming teachers ARE let go within a year or two with no tenure process to protect them. I know a music teacher who was let go after one year and simply told, "You were OK, but we are looking for someone great." I also know several certified teachers who have gone years without being able to find jobs because they don't interview well and/or didn't get great recommendations as student teachers. Despite common misconceptions, not just any idiot can become a tenured teacher-- not in a decent district at least.

The process can take years and cost the schools system thousands of dollars. It isn't a reasonable process. It very rarely happens because of how difficult it is to fire them.
 
I'd never want to be a K-12 teacher in a shitty urban area and that's where most of the demand for new teachers is.

College professor? Seen the daily routines of many. The challenge is getting hired since there's a massive oversupply of talent but once you're in it's gotta be the easiest/lowest stress job on the planet. I'd feel retired.

Once they get into their groove and already have their courses designed from prior semesters, I'm not even sure they put in more hours than the average student.
 
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The process can take years and cost the schools system thousands of dollars. It isn't a reasonable process. It very rarely happens because of how difficult it is to fire them.
That's not true unless there is a lawsuit involved. That's the case with any termination; if there is a wrongful termination suit, things get hairy.

Teachers are fired regularly. It doesn't usually hit the papers, but it does happen.

Plus, like I said, a district has a four to five year window to decide whether or not to offer an individual tenure. If you can't tell whether or not someone is a decent, hardworking individual within five years, you kind of suck as an evaluator.
 
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So poor kids don't get an education? Are you fucking serious?

Higher education benefits society greatly.

Really? How so? The crippling debt to young people? Or the pathological altruism indoctrination?
 
that could be an excuse for a single semester or year, or if you only judge by the performance of the children. but if the teacher sucks consistently for a few years, they gotta go

if the problem is "shitty kids" they should bring someone in who can deal with shitty kids and make the pay worth it to be selective about it

if one of my sales people gets 0 sales every month and says "i cant do it because all my customers are assholes", then i would replace them with someone who can deal with assholes

its not necessarily that the kids are always "toublemakers" or tough to deal with. its all kinds of stuff. their parent is raping them. their house burned down. they dont have a house and move from place to place. therefore they cant shower and get made fun of constantly etc etc etc a change in teacher personality/pedagogy may change things for kids like that, but probably not.
 
Salary is not a problem. It's the retirement benefits and pensions that will pay close to full time pay for life.

Cops can retire around 50 and will receive full pay for life.

It's almost impossible for the next generation to pay for the retired.

My neighbor who retired early gets around 100,000 a year full health benefits.

Right when he retired his mortgage was ending and was still very eager to work.

He Got a new job and says sometimes he doesn't even touch his pension money.
It just accumulates over the years 500,000 plus.
He buys every cool car, truck and toy possible. Upgrades his home often.

So it's seems salary doesn't mean much. You have to get in early and get though those 25-30 year and get that pension. Once you start getting payed full time for doing nothing, able to work a other job is when one can start accumalitng good money.
Not really when most want or need the money though.
 
You mean the same lesson plan they use year after years after year?

Ohh grading papers, sorry they have to sit there and graded 25 papers of 2X8 problems.

Why can't the already ahve their lesson plan made up in the 3 months they have off?

The fact that you're asking these questions proves you know nothing about teaching or being a teacher.
 
Salary is not a problem. It's the retirement benefits and pensions that will pay close to full time pay for life.

Seriously? Salary is not a problem?

My wife has taught K-3rd for a little over 12 years. She makes less than $40k. I think she signs a 185-190 day contracts each year. It's not horrible, but it isn't great either. She could make more in another state, but our family is here and I doubt we'll be moving anytime soon.

Many states have a retirement plan where age and years of service must equal anywhere from 80 to 90 years. Depending on where you teach and how young you were when you started many folks won't qualify for full retirement.
 
Seriously? Salary is not a problem?

My wife has taught K-3rd for a little over 12 years. She makes less than $40k. I think she signs a 185-190 day contracts each year. It's not horrible, but it isn't great either. She could make more in another state, but our family is here and I doubt we'll be moving anytime soon.

Many states have a retirement plan where age and years of service must equal anywhere from 80 to 90 years. Depending on where you teach and how young you were when you started many folks won't qualify for full retirement.

What state is that. In NY for the amount of months of the year teachers work they get paid well.

Retire close to 100,000 a year or more with a pension that will give them close to that for life.

30 years you can retire

That seems low where you are from
 
What state is that. In NY for the amount of months of the year teachers work they get paid well.

Retire close to 100,000 a year or more with a pension that will give them close to that for life.

30 years you can retire

That seems low where you are from

Those numbers are a little exaggerated. New York, if you live close to the city, is one of the most expensive cost of living areas in the country.

I live in CT. In my town, the top pay for a teacher is 85k, but you need 20 years+ experience to get there.

Full retirement is 75% of that (no one retires at 100%). But to get full retirement, you need 37 years in. 37 years is a long fucking time. Cops and firefighters get full pension after 25.

It's not a bad deal, but you make shit for a long time as a young teacher working your way up from 40k.

You also have to remember that teachers don't get Social Security.
 
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I'd never want to be a K-12 teacher in a shitty urban area and that's where most of the demand for new teachers is.

College professor? Seen the daily routines of many. The challenge is getting hired since there's a massive oversupply of talent but once you're in it's gotta be the easiest/lowest stress job on the planet. I'd feel retired.

Once they get into their groove and already have their courses designed from prior semesters, I'm not even sure they put in more hours than the average student.
I've got a pretty good friend who teaches college, and I don't think I'd want to trade places with him. There are a ton of different factors to consider when I make that statement though. I get smarter high school kids, and he's teaching basic courses to kids at the junior college level. That's a big plus for me. I also like explaining things--it's why I thought I could be happy doing this--and getting more time in front of students to explain things that I find interesting is nice.

That said, I probably would enjoy teaching upper level math courses at a junior college level more than I do high school.
 
Yes, yes, there are some amazing teachers that deserve every penny they get. Obviously, not talking about these outliers. Let's move on.

Blows my mind when people always say that teachers are underpaid. I don't know what fucking schools these people attended, but teachers are fucking terrible everywhere I've been.

Low barrier to entry, decent pay, ridiculous vacation time, hard to be fired, usually great pensions, pretty damn easy job. I just don't get it. Where did this myth originate that teachers were so poor and oppressed?

They literally only have to work 9 months out of the year, get benefits that exceed their salaries, and have a pretty damn easy job. Sure, kids can be annoying and stressful, but, compared to every other job out there, it's nothing. If the worst you have to deal with is kids being rude and disruptive, you don't have my sympathies.

And again, this isn't about all teachers. Many teachers, usually college professors in STEM fields, earn their pay. But again, we're not talking about the outliers, but teachers as a whole.
If you want better teachers with a higher barrier of entry than the pay has to be higher also. Top candidates gravitate to high paying positions. As long as teacher salaries are low the quality will be also.
 
Oh boo hoo . . . I'm not changing anything. If you're too ignorant to understand that . . . well, that's on you. Context is key. A swat on the butt is NOT a beating. Heck, 2 or 3 swats on the butt is NOT a beating. A dozen? Well, yeah, that's a freaking beating.

There's no difference. Physical violence is physical violence. You don't get to change definitions to fit your arbitrary beliefs.

See the difference?



What do you know about being a Christian to even form an opinion? Absolutely nothing.

Other than the fact that I was raised a Christian and have been basically surrounded by it my entire life? Or the fact that I've objectively looked at the facts of the claims and read the books cover to cover? So what the fuck are you talking about?
 
There's no difference. Physical violence is physical violence. You don't get to change definitions to fit your arbitrary beliefs.



Other than the fact that I was raised a Christian and have been basically surrounded by it my entire life? Or the fact that I've objectively looked at the facts of the claims and read the books cover to cover? So what the fuck are you talking about?


You're a hoot man . . . go share you holier than thou, I'm better because I'm enlightened attitude some place else.
 
What state is that. In NY for the amount of months of the year teachers work they get paid well.

Retire close to 100,000 a year or more with a pension that will give them close to that for life.

30 years you can retire

That seems low where you are from

Oklahoma . . . and it is low. Very low. She'll never come close to $100k/year.
 
You're a hoot man . . . go share you holier than thou, I'm better because I'm enlightened attitude some place else.

You're a hoot man.... go beat your children with a paddle because you're intellectually unable to punish a child even though your religion clearly teaches you not to be violent. Then blame me for not getting it.
 
You're a hoot man.... go beat your children with a paddle because you're intellectually unable to punish a child even though your religion clearly teaches you not to be violent. Then blame me for not getting it.


Yes . . . that's what this is all about . . . you poor victim.
 
Anti-Intellectualism is a problem. Op is the example.

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Yes . . . that's what this is all about . . . you poor victim.


No, the victim would be the child you're beating for punishment. I'm a grown ass man. If you touched me, I'd knock your teeth out.
 
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