Teacher with a gun barricades himself inside classroom

[Byron Carter]

Why won't you admit that you only see this issue through the lens of a gun nut?

Also, it doesn't only apply to college campuses. Can you please stop being so wrong on EVERY ISSUE LOL

Campus carry specifically refers to a law, allowing certain students to carry on college campuses. And this is very restricted, usually only allowing handguns and only in certain areas of a campus, and usually requiring the student to be 21+.

If you're talking about specific concealed carry laws, that's different. Which is all moot, because once again, the federal statute states no guns are allowed in Gun Free Zones, unless carried by law enforcement.

 

[sickc0d3r]

You have to put it in context. Compared to staying home and beating off to anime it is.

Legalize beating off at school! End soft targets.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I know everyone is piling on Trump for the arm teachers comment but there is nothing wrong with that suggestion. You dont have to arm every single teacher.

It could be designated teachers, 5 or so per school, with training, psychological testing etc.

The people saying its the worst idea ever are just stupid. At the very least you can test it out and check the results

Most schools already have a school resource officer, a trained police officer who normally is armed. I think mine had two.

This isn't coordinating tornado drills in orange hats. Giving any teachers guns in class, and expecting them to undertake the necessary training and revisit it at regular interviews to actually make it effective is not realistic in the slightest.

 

[Teppodama]

 

[Treeloy]

This isn't coordinating tornado drills in orange hats. Giving any teachers guns in class, and expecting them to undertake the necessary training and revisit it at regular interviews to actually make it effective is not realistic in the slightest.

I dont see how its not realistic. Youre making a relatively simple idea sound difficult and impossible.

 

[Byron Carter]

I dont see how its not realistic. Youre making a relatively simple thing sound difficult and impossible.

In the event of a school shooter, teachers wouldn't be fighting against trained killers. They've be fighting against people who likely don't even have the fundamental basics of a concealed carry course.

Liberals are talking like we're asking teachers to go through SEAL training... it's insanity.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

Ban teachers, IMO.

 

[zebby23]

I dont see how its not realistic. Youre making a relatively simple thing sound difficult and impossible.

I'm actually on the fence with this issue. Having a select # of teachers in a school seems like it could help but I just refuse to accept the idea that more guns is the answer. That is my dilemma

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I dont see how its not realistic. Youre making a relatively simple thing sound difficult and impossible.

A school shooting isn't like a video game or movie. Plenty of people train for simple things like BJJ comps, then freeze when the time comes for their first match. You want to trust a teacher with a few hours training at the range to be capable in the event of this type of crisis where children and gun fire is involved? Contrary to what people want you to believe, just holding a gun doesn't instantly turn you into Charles Bronson or Rambo.

If you want to champion more police officers positioned at schools, or to allocate tax payer funds to paying off duty officers over time to protect schools then sure we can discuss that as an option. But giving regular ole civilian teachers guns and expecting them to become the Terminator when something pops off is silly beyond words.

 

[Byron Carter]

A school shooting isn't like a video game or movie. Plenty of people train for simple things like BJJ comps, then freeze when the time comes for their first match. You want to trust a teacher with a few hours training at the range to be capable in the event of this type of crisis where children and gun fire is involved? Contrary to what people want you to believe, just holding a gun doesn't instantly turn you into Charles Bronson or Rambo.

If you want to champion more police officers positioned at schools, or to allocate tax payer funds to paying off duty officers over time to protect schools then sure we can discuss that as an option. But giving regular ole civilian teachers guns and expecting them to become the Terminator when something pops off is silly beyond words.

Police Officer response time to active shooter is on average 4 minutes. SWAT team on average is 50 minutes.

So the killer should just be allowed to roam free, knowing no guns are on site for that long?

 

[zebby23]

A school shooting isn't like a video game or movie. Plenty of people train for simple things like BJJ comps, then freeze when the time comes for their first match. You want to trust a teacher with a few hours training at the range to be capable in the event of this type of crisis where children and gun fire is involved? Contrary to what people want you to believe, just holding a gun doesn't instantly turn you into Charles Bronson or Rambo.

If you want to champion more police officers positioned at schools, or to allocate tax payer funds to paying off duty officers over time to protect schools then sure we can discuss that as an option. But giving regular ole civilian teachers guns and expecting them to become the Terminator when something pops off is silly beyond words.

I think it could be a deterrent though don't you think. I had some gym teachers in school that could have probably handled a gun. My junior high English teacher? Absolutely not, but there are probably some teachers in school that could pull it off. I'm not advocating it but simply playing devils advocate as I have outlined my position is that I will never accept more guns as the answer.

I agree that police officers or off duty officers is a more acceptable option

 

[Byron Carter]

Israel had this exact same problem, with people showing up and attacking schools.

Then they armed the teachers. Two high profile instances of teachers killing terrorists, and suddenly the number of attacks dropped. The terrorists moved to different targets.

Funny how that works, eh?

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Police Officer response time to active shooter is on average 4 minutes. SWAT team on average is 50 minutes.

So the killer should just be allowed to roam free, knowing no guns are on site for that long?

DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ? Or are you just being dishonest like you have been lately and skipping the part where I said staffing schools with actual police officers would be a better idea?

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I think it could be a deterrent though don't you think. I had some gym teachers in school that could have probably handled a gun. My junior high English teacher? Absolutely not, but there are probably some teachers in school that could pull it off. I'm not advocating it but simply playing devils advocate as I have outlined my position is that I will never accept more guns as the answer.

I agree that police officers or off duty officers is a more acceptable option

Everyone thinks they can handle it until the time to put up or shut up comes. Finding out someone in the moment can put up is too late. Better someone who you KNOW can put up then someone you *think* might be able to.

 

[zebby23]

Israel had this exact same problem, with people showing up and attacking schools.

Then they armed the teachers. Two high profile instances of teachers killing terrorists, and suddenly the number of attacks dropped. The terrorists moved to different targets.

Funny how that works, eh?

Yes lets follow Israels lead on gun laws. I think we have found some common ground

In Israel it can take up to three months to get a gun. For starters, you have to be over 27, unless you've served in the military. Then you must prove that your job requires a gun, and get a doctor to sign off. Doctors like Omri Ben Ezra also check for mental illness. The final step is at the gun range.

Also, as usual you are wrong again

https://nypost.com/2018/02/26/no-israeli-teachers-dont-bring-guns-to-school/

 

[Byron Carter]

DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ? Or are you just being dishonest like you have been lately and skipping the part where I said staffing schools with actual police officers would be a better idea?

Like Scott Peterson and Sheriff Israel?

A lot of good that did.

But sure, more police presence increases the odds of one of them stepping up and being a hero... but i'd prefer our first and last line of defense to be teachers who love and care about these students. Let them have the option to defend the kids, if they want to take that responsibility.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Israel had this exact same problem, with people showing up and attacking schools.

Then they armed the teachers. Two high profile instances of teachers killing terrorists, and suddenly the number of attacks dropped. The terrorists moved to different targets.

Funny how that works, eh?

Israel also has UHC. You support us doing that too I suppose?

 

[Byron Carter]

Yes lets follow Israels lead on gun laws. I think we have found some common ground

In Israel it can take up to three months to get a gun. For starters, you have to be over 27, unless you've served in the military. Then you must prove that your job requires a gun, and get a doctor to sign off. Doctors like Omri Ben Ezra also check for mental illness. The final step is at the gun range.

Just because they have one good idea, doesn't mean we should copy their gun laws.

You have to respect the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Like Scott Peterson and Sheriff Israel?

A lot of good that did.

But sure, more police presence increases the odds of one of them stepping up and being a hero... but i'd prefer our first and last line of defense to be teachers who love and care about these students. Let them have the option to defend the kids, if they want to take that responsibility.

You think giving random teachers who will never actually practice using them is better than actual police.

Then you cite actual trained police crumbling in the moment of truth as a reason to give guns to random teachers, assuming some 110 lb math teacher can become Rambo.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Just because they have one good idea, doesn't mean we should copy their gun laws.

You have to respect the 2nd Amendment.

Typical partisan hack response. "NO WE SHOULD ONLY DO THE THINGS THAT I LIKE WHEN COMPARING THESE TWO COUNTRIES THAT ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT"