Tapping too quick?

[zeli_papa]

No shame in tapping early, especially if it comes to certain submissions like kimuras or inverted heel hooks , I say you should focus on getting to know your body and slowly exploring your limits, not listening to some "know it all" white belt arsehole

 

[Crotalis]

@Dougall:

Always better to tap one second too early than one second too late. Submissions are not something to screw around with and once that bone/muscle/tendon/ligament goes, it's too late to get it back. I have a blue belt in Judo and a am like a month away from purple in BJJ and even I will tap fairly early (in training) if I feel the sub is going to be locked in tight enough. Granted, I have a better feel for it than you, but that's all the more reason for you to be cautious. You're still brand new to this sport and need to be given time to learn your limits safely. If this asshat of a training partner continued on with the sub AFTER you tapped, this is a massive issue and should be reported to your instructor.

I've seen people tap just to a strong side control simply because they got claustrophobic. The person applying the side control didn't say "This isn't even a sub" and then continue on with the position. No. They immediately stopped what they were doing like a good team mate should. The fact that this person continued with the sub is extremely upsetting and is the kind of behavior that should never ever be tolerated in a good school. Mind you I'm not saying you're in a bad school. Maybe your instructor doesn't know about this. But if he/she DOES know and it's still being tolerated, GTFO of there.

In the meantime, keep learning and growing and tap whenever you feel you need to until you start getting more comfortable. You will eventually learn your limits and start to respond differently to subs, but at white belt there's no hurry and you certainly won't get there if you're on the sideline with a broken arm or separated shoulder ...

 

[Dougall]

Thanks for the replies guys, general consensus seems to be to remain a little on the side of caution rather than allow him to push further. I'm going to ask a few of the other guys if they also find I tap too early, they've never told me I do in the same way he has, but I just want to make sure they don't have the same problem with rolling with me. I don't think they do, but I'm kind of paranoid now I could be hindering other peoples progress too lol.

Best Answer right there

Its kind of hard to avoid rolling with him, and I think it would cause more hassle than its worth. How do people normally take it when you refuse to roll with them?

@Dougall:
I've seen people tap just to a strong side control simply because they got claustrophobic. The person applying the side control didn't say "This isn't even a sub" and then continue on with the position. No. They immediately stopped what they were doing like a good team mate should. The fact that this person continued with the sub is extremely upsetting and is the kind of behavior that should never ever be tolerated in a good school. Mind you I'm not saying you're in a bad school. Maybe your instructor doesn't know about this. But if he/she DOES know and it's still being tolerated, GTFO of there.

In the meantime, keep learning and growing and tap whenever you feel you need to until you start getting more comfortable. You will eventually learn your limits and start to respond differently to subs, but at white belt there's no hurry and you certainly won't get there if you're on the sideline with a broken arm or separated shoulder ...

Yeah I found this myself, found side control and knee on belly(?) to be pretty uncomfortable at times, never tapped to them, but sometimes panicked in these positions. Now I am more used to them I can relax a little more, so hopefully the same comes for subs in time.

 

[CHOKER28]

it all take time,your just staring your journey and it should be a enjoyable one .If its not then change were you Train ,we have a gym full of monsters who can crush you ,but they dont they encourage and help you game.
Dont get me wrong if you want hard rolls you can get them ,and some.Like i said your just staring out so you should be learning techniques and putting then in to practice not getting a hard time of higher belts in my book there just bullies

 

[mataleaos]

Of course you should tap if you feel like you are in danger. You're still new to jiujitsu. I assure you with more time you'll know what you can wiggle around with, what to tap to immediately, etc.

Exactly. Yeah if you're new then it's always better the go on the side of the safety. Once you've been training for a while it is nice to not tap too early and to let the person actually get a solid rep of the submission in. For example don't tap on a rear naked choke as soon as their arm gets under your chin. Obviously with joint locks you have to be a little more careful, but there's a balancing act. For sure if you're new to the game and aren't sure if it's safe to let it progress any further then go ahead and tap.

Yeah I found this myself, found side control and knee on belly(?) to be pretty uncomfortable at times, never tapped to them, but sometimes panicked in these positions. Now I am more used to them I can relax a little more, so hopefully the same comes for subs in time.

Just saw this. That definitely will happen with a little time.

 

[freakroor]

tap early to joint locks... but with chokes you fight to the bitter end

 

[Bry]

I was stupid when I first started 12 years ago, now at almost 48, i tap like a bitch to joint moves, especially elbow. My elbow will never be what they once were. I can't go back now, and the ego I would have damaged by tapping when I was new, is so much easier to repair. Injuries keep you from training.
In my opinion, the most part of a good gym is having partners you can trust. If you can't trust the people you roll with, as others have said, find another gym.

My two cents.

Bry

 

[Russky]

Its kind of hard to avoid rolling with him, and I think it would cause more hassle than its worth. How do people normally take it when you refuse to roll with them?

I would not avoid rolling with someone just because he said something. If he does not like the way you roll he should avoid you, not vice versa. Keep tapping early.

We have one guy who does not play by the rules and injured almost everyone in the club. I do not roll with him and I do not give shit what he thinks about that.

 

[RJ Green]

it's fine to avoid people who don't respect the tap or crank on joints. if they have a fuckin problem with that, they can knock their shit off or take it up with the instructor. trust is a huge part of the equation when rolling with someone. the whole point of the slap-bump/bow is to acknowledge mutual respect for one another and the rules of the game.

it's not your job to cater to the ego of spazzes and gym heroes. it's a fuckin' hobby.

 

[bowened]

You training partner is an enormous douche. I would take this as a sign to never listen to a damn word he says.

 

[Znap]

Tap verbally and loudly, there's no way he wont let go, lest he face the wrath of your instructor / gym enforcers

 

[Zefram Cochrane]

You are the only one you can trust to look after your health. With time, you'll learn to know better and better where that threshold is where your safety is put in danger. Until you will have accumulated that experience under your belt, you are entirely entitled to tap whenever you think you are beat.

When I was very fresh, a guy popped my elbow with an americana from side control. He had already been training for 2-ish years or something and for what I learned to know him he wasn't trying to actively injury me, nor I was trying to be a tough guy. Let's just say he was not the sharpest tool in the box and he slammed that sub so fast I didn't even have time to realize what was going on, especially as a white belt. That's what I mean when I say you are the only one you can trust with your safety and that there's no shame in tapping early when you are inexperienced.

 

[kenetics]

Hard to say without actually seeing it. Yes, there is a such thing as tapping too early in a way that deprives your training partners of realistic training experiences. If it's just one guy that complains and nobody else has said anything, it's probably just him. I've encountered more people who consistently tap too late rather than too early. But at the end of the day, if you're trapped and you can't escape and you start to feel pain, it's time to tap. With experience, this is one of those problems that will solve itself over time.

This. I hate when guys tap to quick. I straight up tell them they will not be a champion if they chose to compete. You will have to have grit and go through fighting out of deep subs at times.

 

[hutchdavidson]

tell him you know your joints better then he does, just because your new don't be timid get in people faces constantly, be hostile and aggressive towards everyone, i mean everyone even the instructor if he gets in your way and you will get your belts faster and earn respect

I hope this is a joke

 

[powerBJJ]

I hope this is a joke

use your noodle and you tell me what you think

 

[Russky]

I hate when guys to quick.

I am sorry, lady; I did my best.

 

[kenetics]

I hope this is a joke

I hope not, this guy sounds like a winner.

 

[andrewm2211]

OP can you clarify something?

When you tap, does he stop immediately? Or does he still push the submission to the point where he thinks that should be the limit then stops on his own.

If it's the former, he's being kind of douchey, but whatever. If it's the latter, that's fucking crazy and you should tell your instructor. It's super abnormal and just plain wrong to continue a submission after a tap.

Even the guys in here complaining about when people tap to early, (sound like) they still let go after they receive the tap.

Out of all the perspective shared one thing I didn't see anyone say. Is that , if someone has a submission locked, and you do not know the escape, or it's too late to work the escape there is absolutely zero benefit in not tapping. By the time you feel pain, damage has already been done to your tendants and joints. Generally more than you think. For me , when i'm warm I'll think 'oh i'll be a little sore tomorrow I guess'. Then three hours after cooling down I realize I'm hurting a lot more than expected.

If someone has a kimura on you, you are not getting stronger/ more flexible , by letting them push the kimura to your limit.

Strength and flexibility are important, but you work on those with stretches and exercises not by letting people damage your body.

P.S to other posters
Sometimes people may be tapping early because they already have an injury. Like if my elbow is hurting from an armbar that went too far a few days prior, you better believe I'm going to tap if I don't escape immediately

 

[Dougall]

Ok so a little update. After talking to my other training partners, it does seem to be only this one guy who has a problem me tapping too soon.

OP can you clarify something?

When you tap, does he stop immediately? Or does he still push the submission to the point where he thinks that should be the limit then stops on his own.

If it's the former, he's being kind of douchey, but whatever. If it's the latter, that's fucking crazy and you should tell your instructor. It's super abnormal and just plain wrong to continue a submission after a tap.

Even the guys in here complaining about when people tap to early, (sound like) they still let go after they receive the tap.

Out of all the perspective shared one thing I didn't see anyone say. Is that , if someone has a submission locked, and you do not know the escape, or it's too late to work the escape there is absolutely zero benefit in not tapping. By the time you feel pain, damage has already been done to your tendants and joints. Generally more than you think. For me , when i'm warm I'll think 'oh i'll be a little sore tomorrow I guess'. Then three hours after cooling down I realize I'm hurting a lot more than expected.

If someone has a kimura on you, you are not getting stronger/ more flexible , by letting them push the kimura to your limit.

Strength and flexibility are important, but you work on those with stretches and exercises not by letting people damage your body.

P.S to other posters
Sometimes people may be tapping early because they already have an injury. Like if my elbow is hurting from an armbar that went too far a few days prior, you better believe I'm going to tap if I don't escape immediately

Well its normally one of two things. After I tap he either;
-Holds the submission at the same pressure, tells me its not done or whatever and applies some more pressure
-Releases the hold a little, tells me it wasn't locked etc. then reapplies the pressure to a further extent of what he had

 

[hutchdavidson]

use your noodle and you tell me what you think

maybe if you didnt deadpan it we would all know