takedowns against the cage yes or no?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by tekkenfan, May 22, 2018.

  1. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    back 5 to 10 years and earlier guys use to teach guys to get the person against the cage to take them down cause theres now here to run and using the fence to put them down i think that works wonders at amateur level but vs decent good guys people today can wall walk and they dont just double over hook the body when the guy drops for his double like guys use to

    2 of the best takedown artist in mma khabib and ben askren usually try to take guys away from the fence to get them down ben completely tries to take guys away and thinks the wall is more beneficial to the defender i agree

    it also takes alot of energy to get a guy down for him to be able to pop right back up when you have them against the fence they have time to realize whats going on to defend your takedown vs u slipping under a punch or catching a kick into a blast double where there isnt much reaction time i feel is best way to get someone down and takes less energy what do you think?
     
  2. rmongler

    rmongler Brown Belt

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    Setting up your takedowns against the cage is probably the most important skill in MMA for a grappler.

    It makes lower body takedowns harder, but upper body takedowns easier.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
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  3. dudeguyman

    dudeguyman Kosen Ju-Jitsu

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    From my experience, which admittedly keeps my takedowns and striking mostly separate, the wall makes getting takedowns alot easier, at least for beginners. Which I am, ish? Mainly because I do better against upright people vs people bent over like a wrestler, who might eat knees if strikes are involved...maybe I rely upon the wall to much though because I don't feel very confident in my ability to get back to my feet without the wall as well. I am very wall dependent and I do believe that is foolish but it HAS to have a place. You can't say it wouldn't also be foolish to completely neglect wall techniques either.
     
  4. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    yeah the majority of grapplers use lower body takedowns i will neve rget good at hip throws besides uchi mata and harai goshi basic hip tosses i just feel are just to hard to do vs good guys reminds me of going a kesagatame position holding the head once your there your stuck trying to transition back to side control your prob getting your back taken i guess body locks and shrug by's to mat returns are good options for upper body vs the cage if your really good inside trips
     
  5. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    yeah cause amateurs with no real wrestling experience try to either guillotine your neck anytime they get the chance or they over hook the body its a natural reaction and guys who arnt taught the technique are going for a ride tbh in ufc majority of guys who take guys down against the cage usually i see the guy getting up within 30 seconds khabibs the only guy i see lately who gets guys down vs the wall and keeps them there its indeed a struggle you have to stay busy turning the guys hips away mounting the legs fighting for post sadly you cant grab his hand cause its illegal so wrist riding is kinda hard vs a guy who knows how to basically defend it

    i think body lock takedowns are mandatory at ufc level guys automatically whizzer trying to bring your grips above there hips i think getting deep on a double is very hard vs a guy against the cage if you just have a underhook to start with
     
  6. MaxMMA

    MaxMMA Green Belt

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    The problem isn't the Wall, the Wall makes it easier to take someone down because they can't sprawl.

    The problem is there are other defensive options available and if a fighter doesn't have any chain or combination wrestling skills they can easily get stuck in one position on the wall.

    There are high level fighters that don't have this skill.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
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  7. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    you use alot of energy against the wall as wlell though a thing i like to do vs guys is have my underhook pinned to the fence pretend i want the single to get them to whizzer guys are gonna whizzer right away but alot of guys keep there level kinda low afraid of leg attacks and usually leave there neck open and i chain into a front headlock snapdown a friend of mine whos in ufc jason knight won his 6th fight by this pulled a head arm guillotine off it
     
  8. Human Bass

    Human Bass Black Belt

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    Dear tekkenfan, writing isn't like a non-stop Tekken combo, try to use comas and periods.
     
  9. dudeguyman

    dudeguyman Kosen Ju-Jitsu

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    Blank+_4c02d6d6345adafe94c07bc8daa82ba2.jpg
     
  10. Bluesbreaker

    Bluesbreaker Brown Belt

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    Cage takedowns are very under-utilised. Some of the good judo players in MMA pull off some sweet ones. Harai goshi, o uchi gari, ko uchi gari, ko soto gake are all there. Even Fedor hit a harai goshi while Mir pinned him against the cage.
     
  11. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    i sure would if my laptop wasnt screwed up certain keys dont work i cant even type into this i have to type into skype and copy and paste it here
     
  12. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    yeah i saw that
     
  13. DoctorTaco

    DoctorTaco Breadhead

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    I would rather my fighters step back from the cage and throw punches at an opponent with their back to the cage and no where to run
     
  14. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    goes both ways alot of guys have koed guys with there backs against the fence u got to pick your shots wisely
     
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  15. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    Singles are much harder because the cage is your third leg that you can lean on. But if you connect your hands and get them down with a double you can end up in a good position.
    They will try to butt scoot to the cage and wall walk, but if you can circle to the back like Khabib and trap the posting arm it can be good.

    Standing from a wall walk can actually be pretty tough and tiring for the guy on bottom
     
  16. rmongler

    rmongler Brown Belt

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    Well you know, unless you're keeping them there actively, they really do have somewhere to run.
     
  17. TheGZA

    TheGZA Excellent! But not good.

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    This problem is entirely localized to the keys that control punctuation on every device you have used in the ten years you have been posting on Sherdog?
     
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  18. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    The cage is great for getting solid upper body or hip control, but as you noted really top TD artists like to take their opponent down away from the cage after they get their grips to make the standup harder. Askren runs guys into the fence to get grips and then spins them to the middle to finish all the time. It works well.
     
  19. DoctorTaco

    DoctorTaco Breadhead

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    True. We work lateral movement and throwing strikes as they move and having a counter shot or TD loaded when they eventually come forward
     
  20. dmwalking

    dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

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    I think it's good to use the cage the close the distance and tie up. But to finish the TD it looks like pulling them away is the best way. It seems like a better way than the standard double.
     
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