Syrian Refugee Arrested for Murder of Teenage Girl in Vancouver

You were. You brought up 'Hungarians' misbehaving in Canada, assuming they were white, but someone set you straight, pointing out they were non-white Roma gypsies. How hilarious. lol

You must have a serious problem with reading comprehension. I was responding to a poster who declared that he was weary of accepting Muslim immigrants because "they treated women as lessers". I demonstrated that the country he immigrated from, Hungary, does not have a stellar trackrecord of treating women with respect either. Instead of addressing that reality, a deflection was made, and now you are continuing with it. Not surprised.
 
You're still not understanding. Right-wingers don't all believe all Muslim immigrants are terrorists. Whilst leftists DO all believe the stuff I attributed to them.

Jesus Christ you are dense. You introduced a strawman, where you assigned me a position having to do with leftists and their frantic reactions to mass shootings. Well, I can play those silly little games too. Now you are using this as some kind of argumentative point, and wasting my time.

I never said leftists believe everyone's guns should be taken. My point was simply that the left tries desperately to do ANYTHING to prevent another mass shooting... whilst claiming there is nothing we can do to stop Islamic terrorist attacks in the West. Well, stopping Muslim immigration would be one way of preventing more attacks. But no, they're not interested. They don't take Islamic terrorism seriously. In fact, they don't even believe there is such a thing as 'Islamic terrorism', because in their minds, Islam is a religion of peace.

I'm not here to defend leftists, and even if I were, I'm not buying your assertion that "leftists believe there is no such thing as Islamic extremism", in the same way I wouldn't believe that "righties who don't want gun control all believe that there is no such thing as mass shootings". Both of those arguments are ignorant generalizations.

Impossible, due to the sheer number arriving. And even if it was possible, what would this 'vetting' look like? 'Excuse me, have you ever been a member of a terrorist group?'. Islamic extremists are laughing at the West. You do realise that, don't you?

We have millions of peaceful Muslims living in America right now. I actually just bought a slurpee at 7/11, and the clerk was Muslim. Guess what, I'm still alive.

Like I said, there are legitimate reasons to own guns. But there are NO legitimate reasons to allow Muslim immigrants into your country.

There are if you believe in the US Constitution, or in such axioms as "innocent until proven guilty", "rule of law", "equality for all", or even "best man for the job". Are you some kind of affirmative action type or something?

Now this is a REAL strawman: I'm not blaming entire groups for the actions of a few. I just recognise that it is IMPOSSIBLE to single out the terrorists amongst them, so you simply don't allow ANY in as a way around that. And for demographic reasons, Europe has too many Muslims already, so it shouldn't be allowing in any more.

Using the same logic, I could say it's impossible to identify mass shooters when they are purchasing firearms - should we stop all sales of firearms?

Look at my sig, and answer the question... okay? Here: Question for leftists: which countries suffer from Islamic extremism - the UK, France & Belgium, or Poland, Hungary & Japan - the former or the latter? Now, be honest with yourself and accept reality. PM me if you're still confused as to what this reality is.

Poland and Hungary are not the type of countries I would want to live in. Japan is a culture based on collectivism, where the individual and outsiders are seen as disruptive to group ethic. That's a far different way to structure society than the West. If that's what you want, go for it. Move to a country where collective Confucianism is the norm.
 
You must have a serious problem with reading comprehension. I was responding to a poster who declared that he was weary of accepting Muslim immigrants because "they treated women as lessers". I demonstrated that the country he immigrated from, Hungary, does not have a stellar trackrecord of treating women with respect either. Instead of addressing that reality, a deflection was made, and now you are continuing with it. Not surprised.
Oh, is that what you were doing? You attempted a clumsy ad hominiem by focusing on my background instead of tangible facts.

The fact remains there is no institutional bias against women in Hungary as it comes to education, inheritance, career opportunities, court proceedings, dress codes, or anything else. Your argument falls flat on its face on even a cursory inspection. Then you moved onto deportation of gypsies as an attempt at a gotcha against my former (pay attention, as that's an important word) home before telling me to gtfo of Canada as I (a person consistently committed egalitarian values) do not belong here. You're a disingenuous cunt.
 
Oh, is that what you were doing? You attempted a clumsy ad hominiem by focusing on my background instead of tangible facts.

The fact remains there is no institutional bias against women in Hungary as it comes to education, inheritance, career opportunities, court proceedings, dress codes, or anything else. Your argument falls flat on its face on even a cursory inspection. Then you moved onto deportation of gypsies as an attempt at a gotcha against my former (pay attention, as that's an important word) home before telling me to gtfo of Canada as I (a person consistently committed egalitarian values) do not belong here. You're a disingenuous cunt.
They do restrict abortion rights though and women take that very seriously.
 
They do restrict abortion rights though and women take that very seriously.
Sure. It's a nationalist measure for a people numbering fewer than 14 million world wide. Not defending it as I'm pro choice. Yet being anti abortion is a state stance and not one people will try to push on individuals. You won't find Hungarian immigrants attempting to set up anti abortion zones, while there are cases of Muslims trying to enforce Sharia zones and sharia law in the west. Understand the distinction?

Yet it's not in the same ballpark as being jailed for not wearing a hijab on social media. Or getting stoned for being raped. Or any multitudes of repressive actions in Islamic states that are a step from autocratic states as dictated by beliefs based religion. Actions that sometimes aren't left in the old country, but brought to the west by some immigrants.

You've written about visiting an extremist mosque in Florida. That's based on perpetuating an ideology, regardless of nation of origin. I know an Albanian muslim who says there are hardcore Islamists here as well trying to influence society. Go to a Polish or Austrian or Hungarian hall and try to find one member attempting the same. You won't have any luck.

That's the difference between a country of origin vs an ideology that takes precedent over everything else. I know you know this, but that idiot is, well, an idiot.
 
Sure. It's a nationalist measure for a people numbering fewer than 14 million world wide. Not defending it as I'm pro choice. Yet being anti abortion is a state stance and not one people will try to push on individuals. You won't find Hungarian immigrants attempting to set up anti abortion zones, while there are cases of Muslims trying to enforce Sharia zones and sharia law in the west. Understand the distinction?
I understand the distinction but I think that only works against your argument. You're basically saying that its okay to subvert individual freedom if its for nationalist reasons but not for religious ones and that for some reason its somehow less bad for the state to ban something and enforce this with its massive coercive potential than for some private citizens to try and encourage this.
Yet it's not in the same ballpark as being jailed for not wearing a hijab on social media. Or getting stoned for being raped. Or any multitudes of repressive actions in Islamic states that are a step from autocratic states as dictated by beliefs based religion. Actions that sometimes aren't left in the old country, but brought to the west by some immigrants.
As I pointed out earlier there are actually a few Muslim majority countries that rank higher or roughly on par with Hungary on the Gender Inequality Index.
You've written about visiting an extremist mosque in Florida. That's based on perpetuating an ideology, regardless of nation of origin. I know an Albanian muslim who says there are hardcore Islamists here as well trying to influence society. Go to a Polish or Austrian or Hungarian hall and try to find one member attempting the same. You won't have any luck.
Yes, perpetuating an ideology through books. Should we ban those books? Burn them? Make it illegal to possess them? When I visited that "mosque"(more like a warehouse really) no one forced me to do anything, I still went home and jerked off and listened to music.
 
I understand the distinction but I think that only works against your argument. You're basically saying that its okay to subvert individual freedom if its for nationalist reasons but not for religious ones and that for some reason its somehow less bad for the state to ban something and enforce this with its massive coercive potential than for some private citizens to try and encourage this.

As I pointed out earlier there are actually a few Muslim majority countries that rank higher or roughly on par with Hungary on the Gender Inequality Index.

Yes, perpetuating an ideology through books. Should we ban those books? Burn them? Make it illegal to possess them? When I visited that "mosque"(more like a warehouse really) no one forced me to do anything, I still went home and jerked off and listened to music.
The argument was that I'm leery of Muslim immigration because of their treatment of women as lessers. He brought up my background. You brought up abortion. I'm pro choice. What are you getting at? I did not, repeat that, did not say I'm okay with their abortion laws. I don't even know the particulars, but believe tha choice should be left to the woman.

Yes, and they're sliding down the drain. Unless you believe that somehow, magically Indonesia and Turkeys slide towards theocracy will stop. If so, I gave a bridge to sell you.

And, as I said, that's the problem with Islam in a tolerant society. We tolerate efforts to change us into an intolerant and supremacist one. That's why I always make the distinction between people and ideologies. You hold some social views that are more conservative than mine yet I have yet to see you try to convert anyone to them. That is not the case with salafists.
 
Syrian refugee thread is about Hungarians now?

I grew up by a gypsy camp, we weren't allowed to play with the kids, and frankly I didn't want to, those Hungarians scared the hell out of me. They even ripped us off a couple of times. I'm keeping a close eye on @Bald1.

Seriously though, comparing Islam to Hungarian culture is weak.
 
Syrian refugee thread is about Hungarians now?

I grew up by a gypsy camp, we weren't allowed to play with the kids, and frankly I didn't want to, those Hungarians scared the hell out of me. They even ripped us off a couple of times. I'm keeping a close eye on @Bald1.

Seriously though, comparing Islam to Hungarian culture is weak.
Lol. Yeah, apparently. Hungarians are about the only people I'm biased against, but it's more of a personality and not a dogmatic thing.

@helltoupee decided to bring my background into this and I'm using it as contrast between immigration from a national vs ideology perspective. The former people tend to abandon except as a point of reference, while tha latter many bring with them. That this is a point of contention is mind blowing.
 
Lol. Yeah, apparently. Hungarians are about the only people I'm biased against, but it's more of a personality and not a dogmatic thing.

@helltoupee decided to bring my background into this and I'm using it as contrast between immigration from a national vs ideology perspective. The former people tend to abandon except as a point of reference, while tha latter many bring with them. That this is a point of contention is mind blowing.

It's an apples and oranges comparison. That's not to say there's not a conversation here, as long as we're not pretending these are equal.

Also, this is why I don't like divulging personal info.
 
The argument was that I'm leery of Muslim immigration because of their treatment of women as lessers. He brought up my background. You brought up abortion. I'm pro choice. What are you getting at? I did not, repeat that, did not say I'm okay with their abortion laws. I don't even know the particulars, but believe tha choice should be left to the woman.
I'm not trying to hold Hungary's abortion laws against you, that's the point. Country x having law y does not mean everyone from there supports it, especially in the Muslim world where there are precious few democracies.
Yes, and they're sliding down the drain. Unless you believe that somehow, magically Indonesia and Turkeys slide towards theocracy will stop. If so, I gave a bridge to sell you.
Turkey and Indonesia were not among them. They were Albania, Bosnia, Libya(based Gaddaffi, PBUH), Tunisia and Kazakhstan.

Turkey is not even that theocratic, its just authoritarian. I've asked countless times for people to point to these so called theocratic laws and no one can produce anything. Turkey is about as theocratic as the US is, maybe even less so, though of course its far less democratic and free.
And, as I said, that's the problem with Islam in a tolerant society. We tolerate efforts to change us into an intolerant and supremacist one. That's why I always make the distinction between people and ideologies. You hold some social views that are more conservative than mine yet I have yet to see you try to convert anyone to them. That is not the case with salafists.
But I kind of do, I just pick my battles. Alcohol is the big one for me, its such a scourge on society. If it were up to me I'd ban all public consumption of alcohol. I've also defended gendered spaces before though I don't think that's something the state should concern itself with.

Many Salafists don't want to impose their beliefs through the state, in fact the majority believe they shouldn't engage in politics whatsoever. If the state is run by kafir or does not conform to the Sharia then its a lost cause, better to focus on yourself and your family and ask your local qadi about the halal way to wipe your ass or ride a bike.
 
It's an apples and oranges comparison. That's not to say there's not a conversation here, as long as we're not pretending these are equal.

Also, this is why I don't like divulging personal info.
Meh. It all came out in relevant conversations. I have no regrets. That it's used against me is proof he has no argument.
 
Oh, is that what you were doing? You attempted a clumsy ad hominiem by focusing on my background instead of tangible facts.

The fact remains there is no institutional bias against women in Hungary as it comes to education, inheritance, career opportunities, court proceedings, dress codes, or anything else. Your argument falls flat on its face on even a cursory inspection. Then you moved onto deportation of gypsies as an attempt at a gotcha against my former (pay attention, as that's an important word) home before telling me to gtfo of Canada as I (a person consistently committed egalitarian values) do not belong here. You're a disingenuous cunt.

I specifically stated that, up until a few years ago, domestic violence was not even illegal in Hungary. I also mentioned that 20 years ago, there was a marital exemption for rape. All those laws (or lack thereof) were in effect when you supposed left, and immigrated to Canada.

Those statements were made as a direct response to your declaration "Muslims treat women as lessers", implying they shouldn't be allowed in Canada because of this attitude. As long as they follow the rule of law, as I'm assuming you have done since you've been there, I don't see what the problem is.

I'm not saying both situations are equal - I'm saying that we all have skeletons in the closet.

As to the graph I posted - I don't give a shit. If you are going to lump all Muslims into one group, then I'm going to lump all Hungarians into one group.

As to the 'clumsy ad hominem' - I made a post to you clearly stating that I was not attacking you or your heritage, but was rather attempting to show that many of us have been provided an opportunity for something better (including better moral behavior) in the US/Canada. You want to deny that to someone else because you are already here, when the same attitude could've denied you entry 30 years ago. "All Hungarians are gypsies" "Hungarians beat their wives" "Hungarians can legally rape their wives" etc etc etc.

The fact that you have gotten so emotional over this, and even reduced yourself to calling me a cunt because you disagree, tells me that you have no problem pointing the finger and criticizing others, but when the shoe is on the other foot, you start foaming at the mouth. Gee. I wonder why shallow people become terrorists and lash out. Maybe it's the same emotion you feel right now. Stop acting like a 12yo. It's embarrassing.
 
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I'm not trying to hold Hungary's abortion laws against you, that's the point. Country x having law y does not mean everyone from there supports it, especially in the Muslim world where there are precious few democracies.

Turkey and Indonesia were not among them. They were Albania, Bosnia, Libya(based Gaddaffi, PBUH), Tunisia and Kazakhstan.

Turkey is not even that theocratic, its just authoritarian. I've asked countless times for people to point to these so called theocratic laws and no one can produce anything. Turkey is about as theocratic as the US is, maybe even less so, though of course its far less democratic and free.

But I kind of do, I just pick my battles. Alcohol is the big one for me, its such a scourge on society. If it were up to me I'd ban all public consumption of alcohol. I've also defended gendered spaces before though I don't think that's something the state should concern itself with.

Many Salafists don't want to impose their beliefs through the state, in fact the majority believe they shouldn't engage in politics whatsoever. If the state is run by kafir or does not conform to the Sharia then its a lost cause, better to focus on yourself and your family and ask your local qadi about the halal way to wipe your ass or ride a bike.
Once again. State policy vs personal beliefs. We don't see immigrants trying to enforce their former countries laws nearly as often as we see them trying to instill religious values. Yes or no? Everything else is just window dressing.
 
Meh. It all came out in relevant conversations. I have no regrets. That it's used against me is proof he has no argument.

I didn't mean to come off as saying I told you so, was just a passing observation, let me take that one back.
 
Once again. State policy vs personal beliefs. We don't see immigrants trying to enforce their former countries laws nearly as often as we see them trying to instill religious values. Yes or no? Everything else is just window dressing.
But wait a sec, the state policies of Muslim nations are constantly used against Muslims and have been ITT. You yourself made multiple references to institutional discrimination, that's state policy.

If anything it makes more sense to hold Hungarian state policy against Hungarians than it does in the case of many Muslim countries because Hungary is a democracy and thus responsive to the beliefs of its citizens while most Muslim nations are not. If a democratic Hungary has established anti-abortion laws, doesn't it make sense to assume that if they immigrate to the West they will be more likely to support anti-abortion laws in their host countries?
 
I specifically stated that, up until a few years ago, domestic violence was not even illegal in Hungary. I also mentioned that 20 years ago, there was a marital exemption for rape. All those laws (or lack thereof) were in effect when you supposed left, and immigrated to Canada.

Those statements were made as a direct response to your declaration "Muslims treat women as lessers", implying they shouldn't be allowed in Canada because of this attitude. As long as they follow the rule of law, as I'm assuming you have done since you've been there, I don't see what the problem is.

I find it funny that you continually avoid talking about the fact that the Hungary you emigrated from thought that it was perfectly ok to beat the shit out of your wife and rape her, and even had it codified into law, which was the crux of my argument.

I'm not saying both situations are equal - I'm saying that we all have skeletons in the closet.

As to the graph I posted - I don't give a shit. If you are going to lump all Muslims into one group, then I'm going to lump all Hungarians into one group.

As to the 'clumsy ad hominem' - I made a post to you clearly stating that I was not attacking you or your heritage, but was rather attempting to show that many of us have been provided an opportunity for something better (including better moral behavior) in the US/Canada. You want to deny that to someone else because you are already here, when the same attitude could've denied you entry 30 years ago. "All Hungarians are gypsies" "Hungarians beat their wives" "Hungarians can legally rape their wives" etc etc etc.

The fact that you have gotten so emotional over this, and even reduced yourself to calling me a cunt because you disagree, tells me that you have no problem pointing the finger and criticizing others, but when the shoe is on the other foot, you start foaming at the mouth. Gee. I wonder why shallow people become terrorists and lash out. Maybe it's the same emotion you feel right now. Stop acting like a 12yo. It's embarrassing.
It's also not illegal to call your grandma names wherever you're from. Why do you call your grandmother names? See my point?

Point out where I said we shouldn't let Muslims in? I'll wait. The problem isn't based in law. The problem starts in social norms which always end up dictating policy. Always. I am not ok with social norms that can regress what progress we've made.

As for the rest of your tripe about me being emotional or having some sort of an issue with Muslims. Take note that I talk of ideologies and not individuals. Also, your bit about "pot meet kettle" implies that I view women as lessers. You act the prick and you'll get it back.
 
But wait a sec, the state policies of Muslim nations are constantly used against Muslims and have been ITT. You yourself made multiple references to institutional discrimination, that's state policy.

If anything it makes more sense to hold Hungarian state policy against Hungarians than it does in the case of many Muslim countries because Hungary is a democracy and thus responsive to the beliefs of its citizens while most Muslim nations are not. If a democratic Hungary has established anti-abortion laws, doesn't it make sense to assume that if they immigrate to the West they will be more likely to support anti-abortion laws in their host countries?
State policy as dictated by religious beliefs. Yes or no?

Jeez, still hung up on abortion, eh? Now where could an EU citizen that has the luxury of living within the schengen zone go to get an abortion? The current government is in power for one reason and one reaon only - its dedication to Hungarian sovereignty. Everything else is secondary.
 
It's also not illegal to call your grandma names wherever you're from. Why do you call your grandmother names? See my point?

Point out where I said we shouldn't let Muslims in? I'll wait. The problem isn't based in law. The problem starts in social norms which always end up dictating policy. Always. I am not ok with social norms that can regress what progress we've made.

As for the rest of your tripe about me being emotional or having some sort of an issue with Muslims. Take note that I talk of ideologies and not individuals. Also, your bit about "pot meet kettle" implies that I view women as lessers. You act the prick and you'll get it back.

Maybe I failed in trying to properly articulate what I was trying to say. I never stated nor implied that you personally view women as lessers. I was trying to convey that other people could've made those assumptions, based on the things I mentioned. If you took it as some kind of personal attack, which was not my intention, my sincerest apologies.
 
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