Submissions 101: Your opinion.

First things first, yes, I am a member of the Sub101 forum. I am not here to start any fires or anything like that. Just here taking part in a very interesting, and intelligent discussion.

That being said. I felt the need to point out something I feel is blatantly obvious. Some may agree with me, some may not. But in my opinion, aside from the gi issue, which Ari has said is a valid discussion, he HAS done what he can to point out his Jiu Jitsu background.

He has done something, not many people are willing to do. He spends a great deal of time and effort, to make a website where people can see videos for free, of techniques. He has stated many times, that videos are no substitute for proper instruction. In fact it was Ari, who encouraged me to seek out a reputable school in my area to take instruction.

My point is this. At what point, after doing all that, is it the viewer's responsibility to do his or her own research?Is it really fair to hold Ari accountable for other people's assumptions?

As I stated in the closed thread at the Sub101 forums, I am a relative new comer to BJJ instruction, so obviously I have a lot to learn. But this just seems pretty common sense to me. Am I wrong?
 
Armbarking:

Finally, got to your question which you posted over in our forum:


"If I put on a traditional JJJ Kimono and started teaching people JJJ based off of things I learned on DVD and at seminars. If I was often missing key elements to the techniques and mispronouncing the terminology while wearing a JJJ Kimono with my non-descript black belt, would you take offense to it? If I put my "techniques" all over the internet, was sponsored by a JJJ company and had a website called JJJ101, would you consider that an insult to the years you've put into JJJ? Do you think the JJJ community at large would take offense and call me out on it? Please be honest in your response"

This really seems to be the crux of a lot of your complaints (you as in many of the posters here). I am not sure where to go with this one. I've said that the gi issue isn't an issue for me. Making the the claim of being a BJJ BB and wearing a koral gi are two different things. I have said however that you guys have a valid point in your perception. I guess its all about perception really. To answer your question : I do think some of the JJJ would take offence to it, for sure. As some of the bjj community have as well.

What level do I think I am in BJJ? You should know better than to open up a can of worms like that. I am the level in which my instructor deems me to be. What it really comes down to is that I'll answer to Eddie.

Say what you will at my skill set? Don't like the vids? That's ok. Am I trying to fix some of the mistakes I have made. You bet. I appreciate those guys on here that haven't derailed the issue with trolling.

I am leaving you all with whatever impression you like. It is very difficult to defend yourself in a forum enviroment but I have done more than enough to try to answer the important questions. If I didn't answer someone's, sorry but I cannot continue to spend hours on here doing so. I did my best and really hope that came across to those who were looking for answers. While it is my hope that I have quelled some of your doubts and I know that many of these questions might already have answers in the eyes of the thread viewer.

What more is there to say? Happy rolling fellas.

regards,
AB
 
To be honest, the whole gi/belt thing is not that big of an issue IMO. I do think if you are grappling you should wear a gi made for grappling and that if it is part of your system that you are a black belt in, then wear you black belt. The point of this thread is that Ari is, most likely unintentionaly, misleading people. People who pay him dues to teach them or buy his DVD's online. Most of the techniques he shows ARE BJJ techniques. Regardless of whether or not some of them are JJJ, Judo, TKD, Ballet or whatever. The majority are straight out of BJJ. To be honest, I don't know the solution and I think Ari is a pretty stand up guy (from what I can tell). I just think he probably didn't realize that his actions are misleading as it has been pointed out.

Balto; I should mention I train with a few Judo guys. One is the head instructor of the area's biggest club (5th dan, i think). On M & W he teaches Judo from 5-6pm, where he wears his black belt and Judo gi. At 6 we train BJJ, where he puts on his blue belt and BJJ gi. At 8 he teaches Aikido, and once again puts on his black belt (a different one though) and Aikido kimono. Is it a real big deal? No. But, it is respectful as he goes from teacher to student to teacher and from Judo to BJJ to Aikido, to wear the correct belt and uniform.
 
Ari,

Im sorry that you feel the need to leave, and I can personally say that I wish the thread wasnt trolled as much as it was so that we could have meaningful discussion surrounding the issue. However the reason people are "trolling" is because they feel the need to defend their art. Believe it nor not (and im pretty sure you believe it), we work VERY hard. VERY VERY hard. So when people think that there is some form of dishonesty surrounding something that we work so hard to be good at, people get defensive. Some people's replies are a bit more childish than others, but at the end of the day, it is all in good faith.

If you feel that I have trolled you (which I hope you dont), I apologize for that. My only intention was to further educate myself, as well as others, in regards to exactly where you got your instruction from, and what qualifies you to teach in the manner that you do. As stated in my earlier reply, Im very heavily into Japanese Martial Arts history, pre and post world war.

The thing that im having such a hard time swallowing is where exactly you are getting these techniques from. I've seen (and im not bragging) over 50 different Makimono, Densho, and Mokuroku of several of some of the most popular Koryu Bugei. Out of all that i have seen, 90% of the things you teach in your video instructionals are not present in any of the Ancient Japanese texts. So I ask, who exactly did you do your studying under? I read that you did Daito Ryu Aiki-Ju Jutsu, and some form of Goshin Ju Jutsu (which loosely translates basically to self defense). There is *SOME* Ne Waza present in some of those arts, those entailing:

Kansetsu Waza (Armlocks)
Gyaku-Te Waza (Joint Locks and Reversals)
Shime Waza (Chokes)
Ashi Waza (Footlocks)

But the stuff taught in those Ne Waza techniques are FAR less detailed, and FAR smaller in number compared to BJJ, and a good majority of the things you teach are just not there. Im not saying that you are trying to defraud people, but I feel there is a very strong possibility that your instructor may have defrauded you by giving you instruction in something, and calling it something other than what it really was.
 
I like submissions101. I too thought Ari was a BJJ Black when I first started watching their videos but it's not like I felt betrayed when I found out his BB is in JJJ. Take it for what it is, a decent compilation of reference materials to look at when your at home and looking for your grappling fix.

If you see a move you like you can keep it in your head and play around with it during your next class, maybe ask your instructor for a for those few key details to help you really get it down so you can implement it to your game.
 
armbarking said:
Balto; I should mention I train with a few Judo guys. One is the head instructor of the area's biggest club (5th dan, i think). On M & W he teaches Judo from 5-6pm, where he wears his black belt and Judo gi. At 6 we train BJJ, where he puts on his blue belt and BJJ gi. At 8 he teaches Aikido, and once again puts on his black belt (a different one though) and Aikido kimono. Is it a real big deal? No. But, it is respectful as he goes from teacher to student to teacher and from Judo to BJJ to Aikido, to wear the correct belt and uniform.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the instructor does it out of respect. I think that's a good thing.

Personally though, I don't really think it's necessary. I think it probably also creates a lot of logistical problems. Is it not difficult to haul around three separate uniforms with three separate belts all in one bag? Also, doesn't it waste time to change in and out of each uniform in between each class?

The difficulty of washing all these uniforms baffles me too. Seems like it would be difficult to wash all the gis if you are using up three different gis per day.

At some point, we need to stop being slaves to tradition when it becomes completely impractical.

But of course that's just my opinion on the matter. I respect that the instructor feels differently about it.
 
seriously...who cares. If you learn one thing from his website then good for him and you. if not, then move on. Just put a disclaimer on your site and keep doing your thing, man.
 
Balto said:
I'm sure the instructor does it out of respect. I think that's a good thing.

Personally though, I don't really think it's necessary. I think it probably also creates a lot of logistical problems. Is it not difficult to haul around three separate uniforms with three separate belts all in one bag? Also, doesn't it waste time to change in and out of each uniform in between each class?

The difficulty of washing all these uniforms baffles me too. Seems like it would be difficult to wash all the gis if you are using up three different gis per day.

At some point, we need to stop being slaves to tradition when it becomes completely impractical.

But of course that's just my opinion on the matter. I respect that the instructor feels differently about it.
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I agree that this particular example is extreme, but if you do Judo after BJJ, I would change the belt man...
 
Maybe he doesn't change the gi top... I thought he did, but he definitely changes the belt and puts on some MC Hammer pants for Aikido.
 
ShanghaiBJJ said:
I agree that this particular example is extreme, but if you do Judo after BJJ, I would change the belt man...
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I agree that changing the belt doesn't require too much effort.

I just don't think something like that is really a big deal, so I have a live and let live attitude towards people wearing ranks from other arts in class. My instructors usually feel the same way. I already gave the example of when I was in college, and at my current BJJ school one guy wears a black belt from TKD to class along with his TKD gi. My instructor has never stopped him from doing it. I don't agree with it (especially because the gi isn't designed to hold up to BJJ), but it's not so terribly offensive that we demand he stop. I'm not really offended at all to be honest.

I also think sometimes that wearing a white belt when you are training another art can be dangerous. We're not really used to it in BJJ because white belts can actually be reasonably competent in BJJ compared to other arts since people can be white belts for years. Also we're used to seeing a lot of judo black belts with white belts, wrestlers with white belts, etc.

When I trained judo at another school, I wore a white belt. I wore a white belt because it was a judo school that didn't even have BJJ. Since I had to change specifically for it anyway, I might as well wear the appropriate rank.

However, I didn't really feel comfortable wearing the white belt because it caused several people to get injured. They got injured because they expected a judo white belt to have only trained for a few months, and I had a lot more time than that in BJJ. I was able to throw quite a few higher belts easily, and I was able to dominate in groundwork against every single person in the school except one. I injured a few people who were too proud to be beaten by a white belt and refused to tap. I also caused some injuries just by genuinely surprising some people with throws who had no idea that I was capable of doing them.

I know that ultimately it is their pride and false assumptions that's causing the injury, but I still don't feel good about injuring people.

I wish I could have explained my whole training history to everyone before we partnered up, but that's just not practical. As a result, I broke the skill curve in some ways and caused injuries.

I'm not sure if there really is any solution at all to these problems, but I do think it's a more complicated issue than it may first appear. I like the idea of belt ranking systems, but unfortunately they do cause problems along with their benefits.
 
i wore a white belt when i trained judo or i asked the instructort AND the gym if i could just wear by bjj blue belt when i trained judo. I made it clear that i was more than willing to wear a white belt but i kept on forgetting one of my belts when ipacked my bags....
 
Not really liking the way this thread has turned out. The thread on the BJG was closed for an obvious reason. Because only bad things would happen if it was left open. It was a smart decision. Kind of dissapointed my comments weren't addressed.

Ari will continue to make his videos and I will continue to ignore them. Everyone is happy. Seriously, commenting about them after this would make them more significant than they alreayd are. It helps a lot of people and most of them aren't bad. Even than, just because it is free doesn't mean I have to overlook things.

As far as I am concerned this----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6MVXcaCeoI&feature=related

has as much credibility as this------>http://youtube.com/watch?v=uTKDmjU88Jc

Both sites have the right to put up what ever they like regardless of experience. But like anyone else that puts themselves in the public eye, they have to be ready to deal with criticism.

Anyway, I'm done talking about it. I'm just bothered by all the BJJ talk. I don't think BJJ has a monopoly on grappling. This is the style that has arguably had the most success, but I don't think that anyone who shows a ground technique needs to provide proof of BJJ rank. A well done triangle choke is a well done triangle choke. Their are no brazilian jiu jitsu techniques. Just brazilian jiu jitsu philosophies. I think to many people forget that.
 
Calibur said:
Anyway, I'm done talking about it. I'm just bothered by all the BJJ talk. I don't think BJJ has a monopoly on grappling. This is the style that has arguably had the most success, but I don't think that anyone who shows a ground technique needs to provide proof of BJJ rank. A well done triangle choke is a well done triangle choke. Their are no brazilian jiu jitsu techniques. Just brazilian jiu jitsu philosophies. I think to many people forget that.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. There are very few techniques that you could find in BJJ that you would not find in judo or other forms of JJ as well.
 
I always saw their videos as pointers to try techniques, but they never appeared to me to be BJJ Black, Brown, or even Purple level.
And then again, i never saw them advertising themselves as such, so i'm ok with them. A video put up by a blue-level guy may be good for someone who's on white, or with no formal ground training at all (a karateka, perhaps).

edit: I have no problem with them using a BJJ gi and a JJJ black belt. If what they're showing is good, for all i care, they could wear a Sambo pink kurtka with an Army's Staff Seargeant stripes and a pirate hat. When i look for quality grappling, i don't care if the guy has a koral or a cheap gi. I care for what he actually does in the video. And i do not think BJJ gi's are ONLY meant to be used in BJJ. Plenty of people wear Judo-gi to BJJ (even though it's a DIFFERENT cut (longer, etc)).
 
Balto said:
I agree that changing the belt doesn't require too much effort.
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Agreed. My coach is a black belt in Karate and a blue belt in BJJ. He teaches a kids Karate class right before our BJJ classes two nights a week. He takes off his black belt after Karate class and puts his blue on for BJJ class.

He's very respectful of the different requirements to earn belts in different arts and wears the appropriate belt out of respect for the art and for his students. I'm proud to train under him for both his knowledge / skill and his honesty. I'd rather train under an honest, solid blue belt than to train under someone else who wore a belt they didn't actually earn in that particular art.
 
Calibur said:
Anyway, I'm done talking about it. I'm just bothered by all the BJJ talk. I don't think BJJ has a monopoly on grappling. This is the style that has arguably had the most success, but I don't think that anyone who shows a ground technique needs to provide proof of BJJ rank. A well done triangle choke is a well done triangle choke. Their are no brazilian jiu jitsu techniques. Just brazilian jiu jitsu philosophies. I think to many people forget that.
Click to expand...

Huh? Are you being serious. There are an almost endless amount of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu techniques. C'mon, you were kidding right? When was the last time you saw a guy use Spider Guard in a Judo match. Where do you think the de la Riva guard came from.... Russian Sambo? JJJ helped form Judo. Judo helped form BJJ. I get it. But all three ARE different. Each with there own techniques and some borrowed from each other. But, BJJ IS the worlds most encompassing and successful "submission grappling" art. Period.

This is the sole problem. Ari IS showing BJJ techniques. He even sells videos that contain mostly BJJ techniques, not JJJ, not Judo, not Aikido, hapkido or anything else. And he's doing it with a BJJ gi on a non descript black belt and a BJJ (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Gear) banner in the background and graphic at the start of each video. His website is Submissions101, which the term submissions is a broad term, but at the same time BJJ IS submissions. Period. To say there are no Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu techniques makes no sense. At all. Furthermore, he lists BJJ as part of his training, despite having never formally trained BJJ. On top of all that, he IS making money through the website selling unknowing people DVD's filled with BJJ techniques! I mean we've had guys on this thread say that they assumed he was a BJJ black belt. You think the people buying his DVD's would be buying them knowing he has no BJJ training?
 
http://www.submissions101.com/leglocks5.htm


The fact that there are people looking at this to educate themselves is scary......


IF you want to put up videos thats fine, but please have some clue what you are doing prior to releasing them.

This is one of the worst techs I have ever seen, and its dangerous....
 
Just watched a vid of the Sub101 guy sparring.......

He posted in the commnets section that he will be getting his purple from Eddie Bravo Soon.
 
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