Strike based jiu-jitsu | Page 2

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Brian McLaughlin, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. aries Red Belt

    aries
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    Or maybe for people like me that have a fair bit of experience with stand up striking but don't want to waste their time doing shitty subpar K1 style kickboxing in MMA training. I rarely go to my MMA classes and prefer to just improve my submission grappling but then I don't have a plethora of good MMA schools to choose from.
     
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  2. lechien Gold Belt

    lechien
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    Yep, I heard they fight every weekend once they turn pro.
    They turn pro around 14?
     
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  3. raty tat tat Purple Belt

    raty tat tat
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    This is the reason I want to take BJJ, but it seems like most of these schools
    are sub. only sporting style instead.
     
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  4. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    I wish Vale Tudo was still a part of BJJ cirriculum. A lot of people are going to say train MMA, but Vale Tudo was integrated with BJJ so well that for my meagre fighting goals it would cover everything I needed.
     
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  5. Brian McLaughlin Green Belt

    Brian McLaughlin
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    Yes, but the training they do for those fights is not full all out smash your face in sparring, instead it is controlled play fighting.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCZQJEVdTpA
     
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  6. Brian McLaughlin Green Belt

    Brian McLaughlin
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  7. Brian McLaughlin Green Belt

    Brian McLaughlin
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  8. ChainFlow Purple Belt

    ChainFlow
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    They're trying to say that the fights themselves are training, and they are not just play. Or playful. And they have this training every week.
     
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  9. Brian McLaughlin Green Belt

    Brian McLaughlin
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    I disagree, my coach Kaensak is a Thai and he told me the way you learn to fight is by sparring fast and light, for power you kick thai pads or hit the bag. Russians might be different, I know that many of the Russians I trained with had reputations of hurting their partners which made them far less popular. I just don't subscribe to the idea that you need to be bashing the guy full force in training, face mask or not. In fact when Javi trains grouns and pound with me he always says me and my guys go too hard and that if we hit lighter and relax we'll be more skilled and have better reactions in a real fight.
     
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  10. Mike Piekarski Blue Belt

    Mike Piekarski
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    I don't think the face mask is a good idea. One it would interfere with a lot of grappling (chokes etc..) and I think it is better to get comfortable with placing your strikes accurately opposed to just wailing away.

    You need to have good training partners to realize when they could be taking a lot of abuse and react appropriately.
     
    #30
  11. Alex88 Brown Belt

    Alex88
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    Your coach is smooth as fuck.
     
    #31
  12. Einarr Banned

    Einarr
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    Several reasons I don't train MMA:

    1) I like the gi, I find it much more technical and less attribute-dependent than nogi.

    2) No-one walks around in nothing but shorts in Northern Europe, not even in the summer. So gi is far closer to a self-defence situation here than nogi. I don't like warm weather (it makes me feel itchy and I sweat a lot when I get hot) and have no interest in living outside of Northern or Western Europe.

    3) The "nogi techniques work for both" argument holds very little weight with me. It's a lot harder to do arm triangles and guillotines when you have a gi involved, swap the gi for a thick winter coat and I just can't see f.ex. a Peruvian Necktie working well.

    4) Gloves and wraps. No bare-knuckle style teaches punching to the head - the human cranium is harder than the small bones in your hands. European and American bare-knuckle boxers of old used to fight for a looong time because they were aiming to knock their opponent out with body shots, not "throw bombs" at the head and potentially cripple themselves. Kyokushin, known as a brutal and highly effective striking style, does not teach head-punching at all though allowing kicks and knees to the head - it's simply not worth the risk without gloves and wraps on. IMO, head-punching is pure sport.

    5) A warrior's greatest asset is his mind. Getting punched in the brain-box repeatedly seems like a terrible idea.

    6) Modern MMA rules overwhelming favors the striker. Rounds, referee stand-ups, judging, not allowing clothing grabs, et cetera. The brain-dead casual MMA fan wants to see knockouts and bloody beatdowns not technical grappling and boo when it goes to the ground. The rules and refereeing/judging reflect this and will only continue to favor the striker more and more. As a dyed-in-the-wool grappler I have no interest in competing under a ruleset so biased against my own skills.
     
    #32
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
  13. pesadissimo Blue Belt

    pesadissimo
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    I don't know what they use in Russia, but the ones we go here kept fogging up and/or blocking your view because where the plexiglas cut off was right in your line of sight. Reminded me of those six weeks I spent rolling in that Cliff Keen face mask for my broken nose. We wound up not using them for that reason.
     
    #33
  14. ChainFlow Purple Belt

    ChainFlow
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    You don't seem to understand. They're counting the fights themselves as training due to their frequency..

    The implication is that no, you don't have to go all out in training - IF you are going all out once a week in the ring.

    The secondary implication is that if you aren't fighting every week, maybe going near 100% in the gym at least once a week is a good idea.

    Seems reasonable to me.
     
    #34
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  15. Brian McLaughlin Green Belt

    Brian McLaughlin
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    I understand I just disagree
     
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  16. Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Rod1
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    Thats the reality, people will say, well i wanna learn to wrestle/judo/sambo/whatever but they think its going to be like BJJ where there is slow progression every class and you learn a lot by rolling early on.

    Then they see they actually need to put an effort and stop going.
     
    #36
  17. Brian McLaughlin Green Belt

    Brian McLaughlin
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    This is true, I had a 2 time Olympic wrestler teaching at my gym and I practically had to beg people to show up, same for when we had a Judo coach from the Dutch national team. Partly this was a cultural and teaching style issue, but largely it was simply the different training method. Now I've integrated what I was able to learn from them into the BJJ program, but it was sad that such amazing practitioners weren't able to spread more of their knowledge.
     
    #37
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  18. LocalNmass Blue Belt

    LocalNmass
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    I agree, I had it happen to me, thought once I got a blue belt I was practically Robocop, until I was on the bottom of a self defense situation, and were it not for 1 little tip a training partner had told me in passing, that he learned from a MT coach, I would have not been able to escape the situation.


    I choose BJJ for a different reason, I never wanted to fight, but I wanted to learn how to not get my butt kicked if I ended up in a self defense situation.

    I don't agree with MMA being the best self defense. IMO anything that creates the habit of any kind of rules, can lead to a false sense of security.

    This seems to be a common sentiment on this forum, that xyz + bjj is what you need, imo this is a by product of the ever growing ruleset of sport BJJ.

    It used to be, where did it go....?

    IMO the bjj sport world is a self fulfilling prophecy who's target audience is the most sought after demographic. I got my start to not get beat up in a self defense situation, but as time has passed I've lost sight of that intention, because sport bjj is fun, and I enjoy training with the guys. I'm a non competitive, non athletic 30 something, and I never miss a payment..

    I think anyone who doesn't recognize the loss or lack of vale tudo/self defense is not being honest with themselves. I realize not all schools are like that, but certainly we can assume most are..., given the replies by the majority of F12 who don't train for self defense and often mock that aspect of BJJ.

    I can remember as a white belt with a couple stripes, a 6'2" 220lb crossfit guy fresh out of the military coming into the school. We had separate class' for white belts and blue+, on day one the guy killed every white belt with ease! The next time I saw him, the instructor paired him with a gritty black belt, although the black belt was much smaller, he was able to deal with him, and tap him often. At the time I thought "yeah! that black belt showed him!" now,think"holy crap it took one of the grittiest black belts, to deal with a big/strong guy,how am I ever going to deal with a guy like that should the need arise, i'm not Robocop"

    I agree overall, an instructor once told me "jiu jitsu is all about creating good habits" at the time I had no idea what that meant, but now I am starting to think he's right and if you develop habits that rely on specific rules/terms of combat, you may be in for a rude awakening when facing an adversary who doesn't oblige those rules/terms.

    All that being said, Javi appears to be a great instructor and resource to learn form. If I didn't have a previous commitment, would make the trip to experience his knowledge 1st hand.
     
    #38
  19. pesadissimo Blue Belt

    pesadissimo
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    Brian, if Dan Sanchez ever comes back to Precision, please let me know. I never got the chance to meet him, but from your stories I don't think I could pass up the chance to tap into that wealth of knowledge.
     
    #39
  20. Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Rod1
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    All cats like fish, most dont like getting wet.
     
    #40
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