Strike based jiu-jitsu

At what point does combat oriented BJJ just become grappling based MMA? Is there even a line? Does it matter? I just always wonder why people looking for combat based BJJ don't just train MMA and learn the whole thing.
 
I suppose there is a middle ground for those who don't have the heart for MMA (like me - i dont wanna get punched in the face every week).

Something like this at least increases the feeling that BJJ is great for self defense.

However, like I say, I am rubbish at BJJ so this is only the viewpoint of a beginner :)
 
Uchi Mata said:
At what point does combat oriented BJJ just become grappling based MMA? Is there even a line? Does it matter? I just always wonder why people looking for combat based BJJ don't just train MMA and learn the whole thing.
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The separation of the martial arts to me, is mostly for marketing, or for the OCD historian looking to classify the lineage of moves. Every BJJ guy I've ever taken a class with has mixed in JJJ or Judo or Wrestling according to his own taste.
 
For people who can't stand and bang but wanna punch.
Sounds like it favors wrestlers more- Top game.
 
Brian McLaughlin said:
My experience training with Javier Vazquez - a really revolutionary style of BJJ

http://brianwmclaughlin.com/strike-based-jiu-jitsu-javier-vazquez/
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Great write up.

Thanks for sharing!!

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Uchi Mata said:
At what point does combat oriented BJJ just become grappling based MMA? Is there even a line? Does it matter? I just always wonder why people looking for combat based BJJ don't just train MMA and learn the whole thing.
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i have to disagree with you in this, strongly.

I have this argument over and over with people from my gym... I, while might not be doing mma, was in at the beginning to learn how to fight, and so was 99% of the people that is in the class right now, of course that changed with time, but it was probably not a decision from them, but, since it was clearly not going to happen, they just kind of meh, I'll stick with this, and then people kind of pussy out....

you can AND SHOULD be learning how to fight at any bjj gym... if you dont ever EVER spar with strikes, im sorry but the first time you encounter someone donkey punching you in the face while you are on your back (lets supposed you tripped or somehow ended up on the ground on your back) theres a good fucking chance you will freeze to death.

Many of my classmates told me, well, we dont teach mma in here, because we dont have a MT class to crossover... well, WE DONT NEED to teach mma, hell since when MMA is the only safely way to teach how to fight? If you are doing bjj, you should be able to train bjj for fighting too, that means takedowns, distance managment, and using strikes on the ground...that is what I was after when I fisrt started out, I knew I couldve just jumped ships and go to a MT class and learn some grappling for SD along with it, that wasnt what I was looking for, I chose bjj for a reason, to learn how to fight on the ground...

MMA is the best SD method bar none, that I wont eve argue with.... Problem is, I have zero interest in doing MT or striking classes, what I learn in bjj (if taught and trained correctly) should be enough to handle most regular joes of the street...
 
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Uchi Mata said:
At what point does combat oriented BJJ just become grappling based MMA? Is there even a line? Does it matter? I just always wonder why people looking for combat based BJJ don't just train MMA and learn the whole thing.
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Hum, javier is a GJJ bb. That is how they do things.
I would always think Carlson Gracie lineage as well that train JJ for fighting.
 
lechien said:
Hum, javier is a GJJ bb. That is how they do things.
I would always think Carlson Gracie lineage as well that train JJ for fighting.
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Javier actually received his black belt from Rodrigo Medeiros which is a Carlson lineage. It was only after he started dating Rose that he began training with her brothers Ryron and Rener which is when his defensive Gracie JJ skills started to flourish.
 
Uchi Mata said:
At what point does combat oriented BJJ just become grappling based MMA? Is there even a line? Does it matter? I just always wonder why people looking for combat based BJJ don't just train MMA and learn the whole thing.
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Grappling for MMA assumes a scoring system, illegal blows and ref stand ups. While Javi is in my opinion the best ground fighting mind in MMA today, his style is designed for street fighting. He will always remind me to defend headbutts and knees to the face while we roll sometimes winding one up as a gentle reminder that this isn't MMA.
 
Brian McLaughlin said:
Grappling for MMA assumes a scoring system, illegal blows and ref stand ups. While Javi is in my opinion the best ground fighting mind in MMA today, his style is designed for street fighting. He will always remind me to defend headbutts and knees to the face while we roll sometimes winding one up as a gentle reminder that this isn't MMA.
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Have you ever considered dwelving into Combat Sambo?
Headbutts and combo breakers galore, without a sidewalk, and of course, without the double guard pulls and monkey-guard defense.

From what i gather in your posts, it seems like something you could enjoy.
 
BJJ_Rage said:
i have to disagree with you in this, strongly.

I have this argument over and over with people from my gym... I, while might not be doing mma, was in at the beginnig to learn how to fight, and so is 99% of the poeple that is in the class right now, of course that changed with time, but it was probably not a decision from them, but since it was cleary not going to happen, they just kind of meh, I'll stick with this, and then people kind of pussy out....

you can AND SHOULD be learning how to fight at any bjj gym... if you dont ever EVER spar with strikes, im sorry but the first time you encounter someone donkey punching in the face while you are on your ack (lets suppoused you tripped or somehow ended up on the ground) theres a good fucking chance you will freeze to death.

Many of my classmates told me, well, we dont teach mma in here, becasue we dont have a MT class to crossover... well, WE DONT NEED to teach mma, hell since when MMA is the only safely way to teach how to fight? If you are doing bjj, you should be able to train bjj for fighting to, that means takedowns, distance managment, and using strikes on the ground...that is what I was after when I fisrt started out, I knew I couldve just jump ships and go to a MT class and learn some grappling for SD along with it, that wasnt what I was looking for, I chosed bjj for a reason, to learn how to fight on the ground...

MMA is the best SD method bar none, that I wont eve argue with.... Problem is, I have zero interest in doing MT or striking classes, what I learn in bjj (if taught and trained correctly) should be enough to handle most regular joes of the street...
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I agree 100%. Unfortunately, I think most people wont.

Personally, I think BJJ has moved so far away from actual fighting that most people only want to train pure sport BJJ.
 
I also agree. I've trained at two local gyms that are pretty well affiliated with each other. Pretty much all of the ones around me are sport jiu jitsu oriented. There is one that focuses on sport and mma, but it's too far for me to drive. I had to take to roping friends into trying to hit me while I tried to "jiu jitsu them". While I think practice obviously helps more, just taking a sports jiu jitsu class with your mind constantly thinking about defense vs sport will do a lot for you.
 
Gabicho said:
Have you ever considered dwelving into Combat Sambo?
Headbutts and combo breakers galore, without a sidewalk, and of course, without the double guard pulls and monkey-guard defense.

From what i gather in your posts, it seems like something you could enjoy.
Click to expand...

My gym tried to run a combat sambo class for a while. It fizzled out due to lack of interest. Only four of us showed any interest at all, which was really a shame. We even had a Russian master of sport at our disposal.

Brian, I think you'd find this interesting... Vlad told us the way they train grappling with strikes in Russia is with a full plexiglas face shield on the headgear so they don't have to pull their punches while training out of fear of damaging each othher's faces. This is how they develop the muscle memory to throw hard punches in fights. I gotta wonder how much that style of training exposes you to brain trauma, though.
 
pesadissimo said:
My gym tried to run a combat sambo class for a while. It fizzled out due to lack of interest. Only four of us showed any interest at all, which was really a shame. We even had a Russian master of sport at our disposal.

Brian, I think you'd find this interesting... Vlad told us the way they train grappling with strikes in Russia is with a full plexiglas face shield on the headgear so they don't have to pull their punches while training out of fear of damaging each othher's faces. This is how they develop the muscle memory to throw hard punches in fights. I gotta wonder how much that style of training exposes you to brain trauma, though.
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combat sambo is great... although I guess guillitines and most chokes will be hard to pull or pull out if you are wearing one of those plexiglas face shields...
 
This is why I have all but given up on BJJ. I originally wanted to get into it for the same reason as the writer; I had been badly bullied and wanted something to boost my confidence a bit. But when my local BJJ gyms say things like creating champions or 25% self defence, I am not bothered.
 
pesadissimo said:
My gym tried to run a combat sambo class for a while. It fizzled out due to lack of interest. Only four of us showed any interest at all, which was really a shame. We even had a Russian master of sport at our disposal.

Brian, I think you'd find this interesting... Vlad told us the way they train grappling with strikes in Russia is with a full plexiglas face shield on the headgear so they don't have to pull their punches while training out of fear of damaging each othher's faces. This is how they develop the muscle memory to throw hard punches in fights. I gotta wonder how much that style of training exposes you to brain trauma, though.
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Ha, maybe that explains why every Russian I train MMA with went so crazy. Alan, Kahbib and a ton of the old k-dojo guys used to work out with me at AMA. I don't necessarily agree with the full force training though, in Thailand all the fighters spar SUPER light, almost like playing tag and they never have a problem pulling the trigger on game day.
 
Brian McLaughlin said:
Ha, maybe that explains why every Russian I train MMA with went so crazy. Alan, Kahbib and a ton of the old k-dojo guys used to work out with me at AMA. I don't necessarily agree with the full force training though, in Thailand all the fighters spar SUPER light, almost like playing tag and they never have a problem pulling the trigger on game day.
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wouldnt that have something to do with thai kids having around 15990 fights by the time they turn 12?
 
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