Stretch shortening cycle

george, do you have an actual education in this stuff? like, a uni course, degree, whatever?

because I know for a fact that @Sano does. And if I know someone has a degree in a thing and someone doesn't, can you guess who I'm more likely to trust?

Who asked you to trust me? Do you think I'm selling something here?

This ain't funny or constructive stop wasting my time.

Edit: some biomechanics courses include general physics and some don't so I guess it's possible that @Sano wasn't taught any physics, now it makes more sense but even if biomechanics is a bogus science the unis shouldn't allow it

Double edit: wtf am I talking about unis having ethics in postgraduate courses is even more absurd.
 
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You're the one choosing to post here. Any and all wasting of your time is on your head, not anyone else's.
 
Do you think I'm selling something here, like promoting my garage coaching or my personal gym training or any of that matter?
 
The blog ? That's a free wordpress site I don't even have a domain name for, it's more like a placeholder for jj moves than anything else.<36>
It's not even google indexed.
You're not as funny as @spacetime btw you gotta try harder.
 
george, do you have an actual education in this stuff? like, a uni course, degree, whatever?

because I know for a fact that @Sano does. And if I know someone has a degree in a thing and someone doesn't, can you guess who I'm more likely to trust?
Couldn't even answer with a straight yes or no about his education. I think you have your answer
<36>
 
I did say you can train it to an extent.

However if you are trying to get more explosive it's easier to increase the force you produce then the speed at which you access said force.

Power = speed * strength

It's easier to get stonger while maintaining your speed than it is to increase the stretch shorting cycle while maintaining your strength.

The next logical question is why not increase both? If you are a person training to generally increase your power then I recommend you do just that. However if you are a fighter then that would be counter productive. Focus on one or the other while you are training your sport of choice.
The thing is though that F0 (max force), V0 (maximum velocity), Pmax (maximum power) and the SSC are all sort of distinct things, although they all matter and work together.

While the SSC will definitely help you use more energy and become more explosive, it's not the same as velocity necessarily. Velocity is based on contractile velocity, fiber types, rate coding firing (the speed and tempo in which your neurons fire to the muscles), inter and intra muscular coordination, and rate of force development to an extent. All these things are seperate from the SSC and would apply even if you don't have a stretch before the movement.

Btw, Power (Nm/s) = Force (netwon) * Velocity (m/s), but when applied to practical application it's not only power that's important but also the Force-Velocity prolife, ie, the relationship between maximum force and velocity. You can have high force and medium velocity and create a lot of power, and you can have high velocity and medium force and create the same power, but the balance between the two influences how explosive you are during a given task. It's not just how much power you can generate. There is some interesting stuff by Somazina et al. on the subject (1, 2, 3), but this recent one from Reyes et al. with various interventions based on the force-velocity profiling (relationship) of the athlete, and squat jump outcomes, is very interesting (4). It also matters where the task you want to perform is on the Force-Velocity curve and if there's any external resistance or not. It's a bit complicated to explain without going through it from the top.

I don't think there's evidence to say that it's easier to improve strength and maintain velocity, but not improve the SSC and velocity while maintaining strength. There's pretty sufficient evidence that all of it can be trained, strength training however takes longer past the initial neurological adaptions. I know what you're saying though that pure speed can be harder to improve for some.

george, do you have an actual education in this stuff? like, a uni course, degree, whatever?

because I know for a fact that @Sano does. And if I know someone has a degree in a thing and someone doesn't, can you guess who I'm more likely to trust?
He doesn't:

I did not study exercise physiology, biomechanics or PT so yes you should take what I say about biomechanics with a grain of salt.

I must admit it triggers me a little bit that you guys can't see the difference, but I guess that's hard from the outside. He also changed the thread title and edited his OP based on my corrections.

Effects of power training on mechanical efficiency in jumping | Request PDF. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/public..._training_on_mechanical_efficiency_in_jumping


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7282389
See this is a perfect example of him not knowing what's he talking about. He is asked to provide evidence that you can train the SSC (which you can) and improve power and velocity (which you can). He then post a study from 2004 in which they measured the effect of ballistic training on MECHANICAL EFFICIENCY as the main focus, which while interesting doesn't pertain to the core of his argument. It's simply something he quickly googled and put in there.

Then he post a study from 1981 (lol) in which researchers showed that a greater prestretch potentiation led to a greater outcome, in this case a higher vertical jump. There was not an intervention, ie. no training program, meaning it has nothing to do with how you can IMPROVE it through training, which was what he was asked. It's just a random study on the subject.

He is a troll. I'll preempt his bullshit reply with that I don't care about his trolling.
 
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I must admit it triggers me a little bit that you guys can't see the difference, but I guess that's hard from the outside. He also changed the thread title and edited his OP based on my corrections.

Oh, I knew he had no actual study from anywhere with any actual legitimacy since I saw him change the title of the thread. I was just trying to point out that I know that you do have that background and trying to argue with you is incredibly stupid.

As for not being able to see the difference, I figure that if I got into an argument with a fake anthropologist on the internet, most of y'all wouldn't be able to tell which of us was legit and which was just bullshitting. I'm ignorant of biomechanics beyond the most basic of basics so I'm not really able to tell what is and isn't legit. Which is why I rely on people I trust. Specifically, on this forum, you and Sinister.
 
Oh, I knew he had no actual study from anywhere with any actual legitimacy since I saw him change the title of the thread. I was just trying to point out that I know that you do have that background and trying to argue with you is incredibly stupid.

As for not being able to see the difference, I figure that if I got into an argument with a fake anthropologist on the internet, most of y'all wouldn't be able to tell which of us was legit and which was just bullshitting. I'm ignorant of biomechanics beyond the most basic of basics so I'm not really able to tell what is and isn't legit. Which is why I rely on people I trust. Specifically, on this forum, you and Sinister.
Haha well I like anthropology so I would hope that would help, but I certainly get your point. I just have to admit he triggered me a little bit! Thanks man btw.

Yeah this is mainly physiology, as well as biomechanics, which definitely is my wheelhouse.
 
@Sano the studies are not from google they are from here: https://www.scienceforsport.com/stretch-shortening-cycle/#toggle-id-1

it's the link you provided lol, you didn't even read the references of the article you recommended, I attached a pdf from a biomechanics professor about how rotational momentum can be translated to linear momentum via the centrifugal force but you wanted to bash it, lol again. I didn't know that you have more knowledge than biomechanics professors sorry, btw where do you teach?

This is getting more fun than @spacetime threads.
 
@Sano the studies are not from google they are from here: https://www.scienceforsport.com/stretch-shortening-cycle/#toggle-id-1

it's the link you provided lol, you didn't even read the references of the article you recommended, I attached a pdf from a biomechanics professor about how rotational momentum can be translated to linear momentum via the centrifugal force but you wanted to bash it, lol again.
I never had any issues with the studies' validity you dunce, nor the pdf, it was the fact that you cited them incorrectly.
 
@Sano is this a fkng twitter war?

You didn't explain jack shit. You are just scouring wiki, youtube and google for something that you can throw in there. "The vector is on the imaginary circle of the arms, centrifugal force going out in line with your opponent" Yeah, AND SO?

Then you are pivoting to how angular momentum can be transferred from one body part to another, which has absolutely zero to do with you explaining how it pertains to the hook. Just naming forces and phrases doesn't get anywhere. Centrifugal forces is actually inertia seeking to straighten a curve path thus leading force outward from the axis of rotation, centripetal forces are the forces that acts opposite to that keeping in its fixed circular path pulling it towards the axis of rotation. SO WHAT? How does that have anything to do how to manipulate the power during punching, as in, what is your practical biomechanical example? Btw, the golf video has more to do with decreasing the moment of inertia and thus improving angular velocity, in line with the conservation of angular momentum, than centripetal force, but you didn't know that even though you posted it.

So far in this thread you have proved you don't know anything about what a slapping hook is, you don't know anything about what the stretch reflex is (elastic recoil remember?), you don't have any practical information about physics and you've been proven wrong on all accounts spewing nonsense. Your threads sucks, and I'm done with this conversation.

That's your reply regarding the pdf of the professor.
 
@Sano is this a fkng twitter war?



That's your reply regarding the pdf of the professor.
That was my reply to you. I never countered anything that was mentioned in the pdf, I asked you to explain pratically how it pertained to the hook and other punches.
 
That was my reply to you. I never countered anything that was mentioned in the pdf, I asked you to explain pratically how it pertained to the hook and other punches.
Then you are pivoting to how angular momentum can be transferred from one body part to another, which has absolutely zero to do with you explaining how it pertains to the hook. Just naming forces and phrases doesn't get anywhere. Centrifugal forces is actually inertia seeking to straighten a curve path thus leading force outward from the axis of rotation, centripetal forces are the forces that acts opposite to that keeping in its fixed circular path pulling it towards the axis of rotation. SO WHAT? How does that have anything to do how to manipulate the power during punching, as in, what is your practical biomechanical example? Btw, the golf video has more to do with decreasing the moment of inertia and thus improving angular velocity, in line with the conservation of angular momentum, than centripetal force, but you didn't know that even though you posted it.

That's a quote from the pdf of the professor... stop lying.

from the article :

"Interestingly however, 4-months of plyometric training has been shown to reduce this GTO inhibitory effect (disinhibition) and increase muscular pre-activity and muscle-tendon stiffness (27) " which is the study I cited
 
That's a quote from the pdf of the professor... stop lying.

from the article :

"Interestingly however, 4-months of plyometric training has been shown to reduce this GTO inhibitory effect (disinhibition) and increase muscular pre-activity and muscle-tendon stiffness (27) " which is the study I cited

What are you even talking about? You're floundering.
 
See this is a perfect example of him not knowing what's he talking about. He is asked to provide evidence that you can train the SSC (which you can) and improve power and velocity (which you can). He then post a study from 2004 in which they measured the effect of ballistic training on MECHANICAL EFFICIENCY as the main focus, which while interesting doesn't pertain to the core of his argument. It's simply something he quickly googled and put in there.

He is a troll. I'll preempt his bullshit reply with that I don't care about his trolling.

@Sano what kind of degree do you have for real?

'The study said:
In the maximal jumping test, the take-off velocity increased from 2.56 (0.24) m.s(-1) to 2.77 (0.18) m.s(-1) ( P<0.05). In the submaximal jumping of 50% of the maximum, energy expenditure decreased from 660 (110) to 502 (68) J.kg(-1).min(-1) ( P<0.001) while, simultaneously, ME increased from 37.2 (8.4)% to 47.4 (8.2)% ( P<0.001)."
 
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@Sano so the research that had only mechanical efficiency data according to you had also force and power data if you knew how to derive them

The distance that the foot travels is the same before and after training so

Δx'=Δx

a' t'^2 = a t^2

a'/a= t^2/t'^2

v'/v=t/t'

a'/a= v^2/v'^2

F'/F= a'/a = v'^2 / v^2 =17% increase in force

Btw power and velocity are correlated by
P=F Δx/Δt
P'/P=F'Δv'/ FΔv
P'/P= v'^3/v^3 = 26% increase in power

Answering to a kid sunday afternoon.. I'm done.
 
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The thing is though that F0 (max force), V0 (maximum velocity), Pmax (maximum power) and the SSC are all sort off distinct things, although they all matter and work together.

While the SSC will definitely help you use more energy and become more explosive, it's not the same as velocity necessarily. Velocity is based on contractile velocity, fiber types, rate coding firing (the speed and tempo in which your neurons fire to the muscles), inter and intra muscular coordination, and rate of force development to an extent. All these things are seperate from the SSC and would apply even if you don't have a stretch before the movement.

Btw, Power (Nm/s) = Force (netwon) * Velocity (m/s), but when applied to practical application it's not only power that's important but also the Force-Velocity prolife, ie, the relationship between maximum force and velocity. You can have high force and medium velocity and create a lot of power, and you can have high velocity and medium force and create the same power, but the balance between the two influences how explosive you are during a given task. It's not just how much power you can generate. There is some interesting stuff by Somazina et al. on the subject (1, 2, 3), but this recent one from Reyes et al. with various interventions based on the force-velocity profiling (relationship) of the athlete, and squat jump outcomes, is very interesting (4). It also matters where the task you want to perform is on the Force-Velocity curve and if there's any external resistance or not. It's a bit complicated to explain without going through it from the top.

I don't think there's evidence to say that it's easier to improve strength and maintain velocity, but not improve the SSC and velocity while maintaining strength. There's pretty sufficient evidence that all of it can be trained, strength training however takes longer past the initial neurological adaptions. I know what you're saying though that pure speed can be harder to improve for some.


He doesn't:



I must admit it triggers me a little bit that you guys can't see the difference, but I guess that's hard from the outside. He also changed the thread title and edited his OP based on my corrections.


See this is a perfect example of him not knowing what's he talking about. He is asked to provide evidence that you can train the SSC (which you can) and improve power and velocity (which you can). He then post a study from 2004 in which they measured the effect of ballistic training on MECHANICAL EFFICIENCY as the main focus, which while interesting doesn't pertain to the core of his argument. It's simply something he quickly googled and put in there.

Then he post a study from 1981 (lol) in which researchers showed that a greater prestretch potentiation led to a greater outcome, in this case a higher vertical jump. There was not an intervention, ie. no training program, meaning it has nothing to do with how you can IMPROVE it through training, which was what he was asked. It's just a random study on the subject.

He is a troll. I'll preempt his bullshit reply with that I don't care about his trolling.

You did a wonderful job of explaining everything. Better than I ever could. I was trying to keep it "dumb"
 
@Sano what kind of degree do you have for real?

'The study said:
In the maximal jumping test, the take-off velocity increased from 2.56 (0.24) m.s(-1) to 2.77 (0.18) m.s(-1) ( P<0.05). In the submaximal jumping of 50% of the maximum, energy expenditure decreased from 660 (110) to 502 (68) J.kg(-1).min(-1) ( P<0.001) while, simultaneously, ME increased from 37.2 (8.4)% to 47.4 (8.2)% ( P<0.001)."

@Sano so the research that had only mechanical efficiency data according to you had also force and power data if you knew how to derive them

The distance that the foot travels is the same before and after training so

Δx'=Δx

a' t'^2 = a t^2

a'/a= t^2/t'^2

v'/v=t/t'

a'/a= v^2/v'^2

F'/F= a'/a = v'^2 / v^2 =17% increase in force

Btw power and velocity are correlated by
P=F Δx/Δt
P'/P=F'Δv'/ FΔv
P'/P= v'^3/v^3 = 26% increase in power

Answering to a kid sunday afternoon.. I'm done.

@Sano is this too hard for you?
 
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