Strength workout after normal training?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by tchappy, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. tchappy

    tchappy White Belt

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    Hey guys!

    (75kg 181cm 16 years)
    I’m doing 2 mma and 1 Muay Thai Training every week, and since a few months I put a strength workout after each mma training.

    It consists of 3 sets of 7 excsercises with rope, kettlebells, bench and own weight.

    I often feel very tired when doing the workout, I always have to push myself har to do them. The problem is that its not because of the weight but bc of the training before, my endurance seems to “bottleneck” my strength training. I have to say my trainer made my plan, so he thinks that’s the way to go, although my progress feels very small. (He said it takes time and patience)

    Is that normal or should I change my workout? (Thought of maybe same volume, 2 sets, it’s unfortunately no option to do strength and then technique)
     
  2. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Doing strength work directly after you MMA training sounds like a bad idea if you want to optimise your strength gains. How long of a break do you have inbetween?
     
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  3. tchappy

    tchappy White Belt

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    I give myself around 5 minutes..
    i reckon it would be better to do the strength workouts seperately on other days, but time time doesn’t really allow that

    That’s my current workout plan:
    (3 Sets)

    10 Turkish Get Up (8kg)
    2 Rope Up and Down (only hands, from a standing position)
    20 Pushup Ball (legs on a gymnastic ball, one rep: push-up, pull knees towards breast and then back)
    20 Kettlebell Swings (16kg)
    20 Kettlebell Halo (16kg)
    20 Kettlebell Boxing (2x12kg) (Idk the correct term, lying on the back, pushing the weights up as you would box)
    1 Pyramid (16kg 5,4,3,2,1 Squats) (12kg 1,2,3,4,5 Curls)

    Usually I bench 3x12 reps after this (each rep 3s @ 40kg) and then 50 sit-ups, whereas the sit ups are just because I like doing them (lol)
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  4. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    If you can't do it on other days, the minimum should be giving yourself a longer break. Are you doing the workouts at the gym? Otherwise I would wait a few hours before strength training. If you have to do while still being at a the gym, I can see why you wouldn't want to wait too long as you would just need to warm up again and have even less energy.

    Really it depends on your goal of the sessions. The exercises are alright, but when it comes to the bench and squat, if you want to work on your max strength you should be lifting heavier without being fatigued. The program is obviously designed for muscular endurance, but you are doing too much in my opinion.

    With some small changes it might be better for you, try this:

    Begin with 2 sets with Squats isolated, giving yourself a little longer rest between sets so it's not part of the circuit. Keep the form good, but work on putting more weight on the bar over time. You don't have to rush it, but 16kg or whatever you are lifting now, you might as well do BW squats.

    (2 sets)

    10 Turkish Get Up (8kg)
    2 Rope Up and Down (only hands, from a standing position)
    20 Pushup Ball (legs on a gymnastic ball, one rep: push-up, pull knees towards breast and then back)
    20 Kettlebell Swings (16kg)
    20 Kettlebell Halo (16kg)
    20 Kettlebell Boxing (2x12kg) (Idk the correct term, lying on the back, pushing the weights up as you would box)

    Sometimes less is more. You can always add another set later on.
     
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  5. tchappy

    tchappy White Belt

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    Yeah, I do my workout right after training at the gym, so there’s never more than 5 mins or so in between.

    I like the idea of 2 sets (won’t take so long hehe), should I then increase weight or volume (3rd set)?
     
  6. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Increase the weight a little on the squat and perform it before you begin the other exercises. Keep the volume and intensity the same on the rest of the exercises. The reason for cutting out a set is because you are not getting the most out of what you are already doing. If you add more intensity and volume right now, it will defeat the purpose of cutting a set out. Sometimes you get more out of less. In time you can gradually add more weight to the squat and go back to 3 sets again. Then if that is going well you can perhaps change things up.
     
  7. ZOD66

    ZOD66 Blue Belt

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    If you don't have cardio all other stuff will not help just ask Conor
     
  8. jojoRed

    jojoRed Purple Belt

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    Says the slob.

    You realise he doesnt have as much stamina as he used o because he doesnt run anymore right? After the knee injury in the Holloway fight.

    TS, try to do strenth training in the morning if your doing MMA in the afternoon or do it on a separate day. Also stretch. Getting more muscular and tight is just gonna wreck havoc on technique in your MMA game.
     
  9. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Definitely do not want to do his strength training just before MMA training though, if a several hour gap between the two is not possible. That will just increase injury risk and decrease motor learning.
     
  10. ZOD66

    ZOD66 Blue Belt

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    Just like someone said here with all those millions
     
  11. ZOD66

    ZOD66 Blue Belt

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    Conor could fix that problem with all millions he have
     
  12. jojoRed

    jojoRed Purple Belt

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    I really only do strength training now unlike before, but I found that its best to just do strength training on a different day. But there is a reason as to why pros do it later after doing technical training.

    I did do the morning strength training and found that by the time I did the boxing in the afternoon, I would be sharper and looser. And by strength training I mean really low weight squats, overhead pressing etc.
     
  13. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Yeah it's relative of course. If you are doing light loads and just working your body through then it might loosen you up for later practice, but it's all about managing the fatigue. Doing deliberate strength training is best done on seperate days, or at a later time, but sometimes you just have to make do.
     
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  14. tchappy

    tchappy White Belt

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    Yeah I reckon it’s better on a separate day, but then I would lose 2-3h each week easily (getting to the gym and back etc)..

    Any downsides of doing it right after for the body? (Inneffective etc.?)
     
  15. Chungungo

    Chungungo Getting some snow

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    Why the pros do it after ?
    Loved the phrase under your avatar.
     
  16. jojoRed

    jojoRed Purple Belt

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    Well so they dont compromise their technique in training, Its best for a fighter to be at their most flexible aswell. Thats why they do a bunch of stretching everytime. Strength training makes everything tighter and youre more likely to use worse technique when training after strength training.
    Its a kanye lyric from probably the best album ever made. If youre into hiphop with maximalist type production and great lyrics, go listen bro.
     
  17. Chungungo

    Chungungo Getting some snow

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    No thank´s I am classic rock and heavy metal fan, I only know about Kanye because of the video of his wife back then hahaha.

    I believe if you stretch can do it in different days or before.
     
  18. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Well downside is that you have less energy stored, but at the same time nothing is perfect. If it works for you, then it works! Try the changes we talked about with less volume and doing the squats seperated from the circuit and first, and see if it helps you have more in the tank for your fight training.
     
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  19. selfcritical

    selfcritical Brown Belt

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    Like Sano said, the main thing here that's important is managing recovery, and the way you're effected fatigue-wise by weights can vary a lot by

    1) How experienced of a lifter you are
    2) Your size
    3) Your sex
    4) What kind of training you're doing (You need to be extremely fresh to get the benefits of speed training/olympic weightlifting, a little bit less for powerliftings/strength training, and you can basically be dog-shit tired and still get productive bodybuilding workouts done.) The more you're targeting speed, the fresher you need to be. The more technical the lift, the fresher you need to be. The more eccentric forces you're having to control, the fresher you need to be. Within those constraints, as long as are fresh enough to produce an overload event, the training can be productive.


    I myself will generally find that as loads or speed goes higher, that it will be more productive for me to put all the most stressful stuff in the same days, so that my active recovery days are actually recovery. That would mean light cardio at a steady state, and rolling with people I know i can style on but just working defense or something like this.
     
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  20. tchappy

    tchappy White Belt

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    Thanks, I seem to understand It now.
    My workout category would be 2, having good technic is important which needs a good amount of concentration. It also targets strength, which is another thing needing energy.

    As said, I’ll adapt the workout to the training before (do less when really exhausted), will also play around with caffeine in form of pills/tea and see how it goes!

    BTW, managed to increase some volume last week (16 instead of 12kg for the „KB Boxing“)
     

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