Strenght vs. Technique

W

Willyw

White Belt
@White
Joined
Nov 17, 2011
Messages
96
Reaction score
0
Hi fellow sherdogers,

Due to a little lack in motivation the last year I decided to "reduce" my time training BJJ to 3x a week, and prioritize my strength training.

This has given me much better results, and when rolling and yesterday I was able to tap out and control all of our purple belt except one (the strongest). How ever, I feel I did better because of my strength and not technique.

What are your takes on this topic? Should your belt be related to the level you are tapping out, or a more based on technical knowledge? I`m sure this topic is mentioned a million times, but always fun to revisit it ;)
 
Strength is awesome. Technique is a means to obtain positional strength, nothing more. Having a higher baseline is a tremendous advantage no matter how you cut it.

That being said, it would be pretty awkward to be a higher belt who moved like a white belt. As such, both competitive skills and technical knowledge should be considered for belts.
 
Kaffe said:
Strength is awesome. Technique is a means to obtain positional strength, nothing more. Having a higher baseline is a tremendous advantage no matter how you cut it.

That being said, it would be pretty awkward to be a higher belt who moved like a white belt. As such, both competitive skills and technical knowledge should be considered for belts.
Click to expand...

So how would you look at a blue belt who moves like his belt belt, but submits purple belts (roughly same weight)? Most my partners complain about the strength, compensating for "technique"...
 
This topic again....

Respectfully:
STFUaT

The answers will come to you when the time is right, which may not be when you think you want to hear them, or even the answer your looking for.

1x a week
6x a week
Doesn't matter, just train and be better than you were yesterday, if you want time to improve your physical abilities, that's cool too, nothing wrong with being healthy.
 
Willyw said:
So how would you look at a blue belt who moves like his belt belt, but submits purple belts (roughly same weight)? Most my partners complain about the strength, compensating for "technique"...
Click to expand...

Hard to say without having watched you roll. Could be that you are hulking out, could be that you're closing in on them and they are protecting their ego. It usually helps asking how you're specifically muscling it as opposed to using proper technique. If they struggle to identify specifics, then it might just be ego. If they DO identify specifics, then you have gained valuable feedback.
 
Kaffe said:
That being said, it would be pretty awkward to be a higher belt who moved like a white belt. As such, both competitive skills and technical knowledge should be considered for belts.
Click to expand...

Its more awkward watching a blue belt take out a bunch of brown belts and black belts. I dont think many people take into account competitive skills when assessing belt level.
 
Dirty Holt said:
Its more awkward watching a blue belt take out a bunch of brown belts and black belts. I dont think many people take into account competitive skills when assessingI belt level.
Click to expand...

Also true.

Depends on the coach really.

My Judo coach promoted me after nearly every competition in the first few years. Said years later he wanted to get me out of the novice division asap because of my wrestling bred competition experience, and that the only way I was going to learn judo was to get my ass kicked in the advanced division until I was forced to start using judo.

Took a year of losses for things to click.
 
Willyw said:
What are your takes on this topic? Should your belt be related to the level you are tapping out, or a more based on technical knowledge? I`m sure this topic is mentioned a million times, but always fun to revisit it ;)
Click to expand...

Belts are about knowledge, technique and dedication, if you want a medal because you're good, go to a competition.

Basing the belt level only on what you do in sparring just encourages people to focus on what they are good at...

Why would you try to learn everything when you can just progress while you just play around what you're already good at.

Like yesterday I was sparring with a guy ranked like me and he was really good when on top and he had better judo then most of the guys so he was basically always on top. He's able to tap and dominate higher belts in this position. But when I finally managed to get on top he was not that good, even one of the worst on is back. So why give him a better rank based on is trick.

Belts are not perfect but when it's based on knowledge, technique and dedication it's at least based on something solid.
 
rmongler said:
Why would you not focus on what you're good at.
Click to expand...

I think that in any martial arts you have to have a good to great mastery of pretty much everything in your martial art.

The volume of classes (dedication) and techniques shown and drilled give you at least a proper understanding of all the techniques even though it won't be a go to move in your game.

I don't see anything wrong with a trainer looking at how many times he sees you, periodically looking at you more closely, noticing how serious you are during lessons and how is your technique level during sparring. After all that he's got all the rights to promote you or not.

You guys know that there's A level athletes and people that have grappling experience (judo or wrestling), all of that can put you ahead of people. But why give those guys higher BJJ ranks when they don't have the technique level they should have at that rank.
 
Quebec Nick said:
I think that in any martial arts you have to have a good to great mastery of pretty much everything in your martial art.
Click to expand...


You can have knowledge of many things; you can't have mastery of many things.

If you want to be a master and not just a casual dilettante, you need to specialize.
 
rmongler said:
You can have knowledge of many things; you can't have mastery of many things.

If you want to be a master and not just a casual dilettante, you need to specialize.
Click to expand...

The question is more about when you should focus on performance instead of the basics and rank for skills and results.

Is it after blue belt, purple belt or Brown belt and up.

If I take where I train, usual classes are 1 hour, with 25 to 30 minutes for lessons and drilling, the rest is sparring. you can go to classes 4-5 times a week and there's open mats on weekends. Most of the guys do it 4 times a week so they do 3 lessons and one open mat. So it's about 75 hours of techniques a year.

In this discussion we were talking about blue belts and purple belts that should be promoted because they can tap Brown belts and black belts

If we use the idea of promoting only on sparring aptitudes and that a blue belt get is purple belt 1 year earlier than he was normaly supposed to. It's 75 hours of techniques and drilling that he doesn't have, some basics and positions that he won't even have glimpse of.
 
To me belt should represent technical knowledge and the ability to spar competitively with peers.

A guy with a lot of nogi experience might be beating higher level guys but shouldn't get a belt until he knows the basics of gi.

A 35 year old with a full time job and kids should be compared to similar guys, not the 21 year old student who train 12 times a week.
 
Well lets be honest,at highest level all best bjj do weight lifting/gymnastic or similar stuff.
 
davou said:
how did you get good at that thing in the first place? Aint no one on earth started bjj winning
Click to expand...


I feel like every time these debates happen, absolutely noone can actually appreciate nuance, how context changes the adaptiveness of one contingent formula over another.

So because a rank beginner, who is not exposed to anything, and therefore by definition is placing himself 'in a disadvantageous position' simply by beginning training, it somehow translates to the ultimate ideal in martial arts being, purposely sabotaging your development by constantly jumping tracks in focus to a hodgepodge of marginal stuff you'll never get good at and never possibly pull off against someone good (since if you did, according to the formula, you'd have to stop and move on to something else) and literally training yourself worse with nega-grappling by conditioning a habit of giving up advantageous positioning to your opponent?

No actually, that doesn't translate at all.


 
Last edited:
rmongler said:
I feel like every time these debates happen, absolutely noone can actually appreciate nuance, how context changes the adaptiveness of one contingent formula over another.

So because a rank beginner, who is not exposed to anything, and therefore by definition is placing himself 'in a disadvantageous position' simply by beginning training, it somehow translates to the ultimate ideal in martial arts being, purposely sabotaging your development by constantly jumping tracks in focus to a hodgepodge of marginal stuff you'll never possibly pull off against someone good and literally training yourself worse with nega-grappling by conditioning a habit of giving up advantageous positioning to your opponent?

No actually, that doesn't translate at all.
Click to expand...

Duuude.... I couldnt make sense of a single one of those sentences :p Well except the last one :p


I want you to have this pile of periods; if you ever need more just ask.

................
Click to expand...
 
Willyw said:
Hi fellow sherdogers,

Due to a little lack in motivation the last year I decided to "reduce" my time training BJJ to 3x a week, and prioritize my strength training.

This has given me much better results, and when rolling and yesterday I was able to tap out and control all of our purple belt except one (the strongest). How ever, I feel I did better because of my strength and not technique.

What are your takes on this topic? Should your belt be related to the level you are tapping out, or a more based on technical knowledge? I`m sure this topic is mentioned a million times, but always fun to revisit it ;)
Click to expand...

Why should it be based on technical knowledge?

Are you creating instructors?

I read a book from a judoka that only knew 3 throws. After he retired from competitive judo and was promoted to national judo coach in Japan, he had to relearn everything to do a good job.

I don't promote based in who you tap at training.

It mostly time based or performance based at competition level.

Don't worry about other, become a purple belt version of yourself.
 
If you have a strength advantage- use it. You will have to learn technique, but having both is optimum in competition.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,888
Messages
55,451,361
Members
174,783
Latest member
notnormal

Share this page

Back
Top