Story of the Century: Xanda, son of Cecil the lion, killed by hunters

[jefferz]

If we killed every lion in existence WWF would still get 2/3 of the total raised without killing a thing.

One single organization earns more in donations in a year than allowing 2/3 of our lion populations to be killed for hunting in the same year.

People like yourself like to act as though hunters are doing some great thing for animals here and much more for the welfare of animals than all the other non hunting people that complain.

Complete and utter crock of shit. Stop acting like hunting is this massive unmatched source of revenue for the area.

Donations from one charity are bigger than the entire revenue of the big game hunting market in Africa(estimated at $200 mil per year)

How dare they try to sustain themselves. They should just rely on charity.

 

[HomeRun916]

lol like this is any sort of deal at all. It's nature.

 

[HomeRun916]

Hunter should be hunted imo

By what? They already pwnt the shit out of lions.

 

[Stoic1]

Humans are locusts. I think it is time for the earth to rebalance nature.

 

[Cid]

WWF is not without its controversies itself. If I directly pay money to someone, who now makes his living making SURE he has a sustainable future supply of whatever game some rich fool wants to hunt, he will keep that population going to feed his family and his children's children. And if directly paid to the land owner you don't have to deal with government entities and extra hands.

Also, the research isn't all there on hunting BUT many predators (lions are predators, ya know) have evolutionary traits that allow them to mate earlier and more often when they sense culling of their blood-lines. Hence the coyote epidemic in the US right now.

http://m.humanesociety.org/animals/coyotes/tips/against_killing_coyotes.html

And just to let you know, I have looked at both ends of this issue myself, was raised in a hunting rich area, and hated it, was indoctrinated in school to hate it, come full circle. I can, and have argued both ends.

I'm not anti hunting. Big game hunting is serious micro penis territory but even still I'm not totally against it.

My gripe is people that act like big game hunting is some major wildlife conservation strategy when it so blatantly isn't.

It's a 200 million dollar a year industry for Africa.

Tourism is a 73 billion dollar a year industry for Africa.

Let's not act like a small % of 200 million is anywhere near as large as a small % of 73 billion. One number is 365 times larger than the other and last time I checked most people weren't going to Africa to visit those people with the hoops who jump really high.

I'm not saying the WWF is the be all an end all when it comes to conservation or that they do no wrong. I'm just saying that the WWF alone puts more money into wildlife protection each year than the entire big game industry generates.

Even if every single cent went into conservation it'd still be a fraction of what the WWF provides.

Yet every thread someone comes in and acts like it's this great thing for conservation when it's just chump change. Wouldn't even equate to .3% of conservation efforts in the area.

How dare they try to sustain themselves. They should just rely on charity.

Get more from charity.

30k for a lion? That's prelim money.

That's the problem with having nice animals in poor countries. Too poor to appreciate the real market value.

 

[snakedafunky]

I just don't get why anyone would get pleasure out of shooting an animal.
But then again lots of people probably don't get some stuff I am doing.

I think most of that money gets wasted in Africa like some people have posted out.
I am neutral on the issue. But if you could show some plan how this hunting can help the wildlife and community I would support it.
Also, I personally don't get why anyone would do it.

 

[floivanus]

I'm not anti hunting. Big game hunting is serious micro penis territory but even still I'm not totally against it.

My gripe is people that act like big game hunting is some major wildlife conservation strategy when it so blatantly isn't.

It's a 200 million dollar a year industry for Africa.

Tourism is a 73 billion dollar a year industry for Africa.

Let's not act like a small % of 200 million is anywhere near as large as a small % of 73 billion. One number is 365 times larger than the other and last time I checked most people weren't going to Africa to visit those people with the hoops who jump really high.

I'm not saying the WWF is the be all an end all when it comes to conservation or that they do no wrong. I'm just saying that the WWF alone puts more money into wildlife protection each year than the entire big game industry generates.

Even if every single cent went into conservation it'd still be a fraction of what the WWF provides.

Yet every thread someone comes in and acts like it's this great thing for conservation when it's just chump change. Wouldn't even equate to .3% of conservation efforts in the area.



Get more from charity.

30k for a lion? That's prelim money.

That's the problem with having nice animals in poor countries. Too poor to appreciate the real market value.

Tourism is a 73 billion dollar industry, because you take into account the people going to the pop up towns, hippy dippy bars restaurants etc put in to attract tourists, the guides who drive thru the land OWNED by people who are directly paid by hunters to breed and 'preserve' these 'majestic' animals that are present.

Fact is, lions will mame, kill and eat people whenever they get the chance, children disappear from villages when lions get accustomed to seeing people (tourists, etc love to get as close to lions et all and feed them, which gets them to get more comfortable around us) they are predators, and with Africas population expected to top 4 billion by the end of this century tertiary predators will be seen as a nuiscance and dealt with.

 

[Quipling]

Typically said rich folks plunk down a wad of hard US/ EU currency ($20,000-$50,000 US is typical) that sustains a local economy and helps create and maintain some sort of animal habitat/reserve that does help give endangered species a chance at survival in the future. Also after whatever 'trophy' is procured from the animal (pictures, pelt, whatever) the meat is given to local villagers (an elephant yields 20,000 meals, don't know what a lion gives) monetizing game hunts in Africa is the only thing keeping locals interested in stopping poachers from doing it and giving nothing back to the community. Poaching, not legal, restricted and regulated hunting, is what dwindled the numbers of animals in the first place.

This is partially bullshit. Most guides for this sort of thing aren't local, esp in the really fucked up countries. The meat is sometimes donated- but few of those countries are suffering from famines, either, these days. The bigger issues are diseases, parasites, and no jobs.

 

[Hogey]

Nice prize

 

[Hankooks]

Modern technology has taken all the fun out of "big game" hunting.

Now it's pretty much just a controlled execution.

You've never hunted and probably never fired a gun.

 

[TheGreatA]

You've never hunted and probably never fired a gun.

I've went through the military and hunted.

I'm talking about rich trophy hunters chasing lions. From what I've seen, they've got a bunch of experts around them essentially holding their hand and pulling the trigger for them, with modern equipment which takes away all the possibility of failure. That's not what I call hunting.

 

[BOWHUNTER]

Perfectly legal. Im sure he paid a small fortune and fed a lot of locals with his cash. Liberals can suck a dick n this one.

 

[floivanus]

This is partially bullshit. Most guides for this sort of thing aren't local, esp in the really fucked up countries. The meat is sometimes donated- but few of those countries are suffering from famines, either, these days. The bigger issues are diseases, parasites, and no jobs.

Guides, yes. But the land-owners that are paid to raise animals for the hunt are local, and paying to hunt on that land staves off urbanization, the loss of animal habitats and helps prolong what is an inevitable outcome for endangered, or soon to be endangered species.

 

[Cid]

Tourism is a 73 billion dollar industry, because you take into account the people going to the pop up towns, hippy dippy bars restaurants etc put in to attract tourists, the guides who drive thru the land OWNED by people who are directly paid by hunters to breed and 'preserve' these 'majestic' animals that are present.

Fact is, lions will mame, kill and eat people whenever they get the chance, children disappear from villages when lions get accustomed to seeing people (tourists, etc love to get as close to lions et all and feed them, which gets them to get more comfortable around us) they are predators, and with Africas population expected to top 4 billion by the end of this century tertiary predators will be seen as a nuiscance and dealt with.

Hippy dippy bars?

I'm not drinking anything in Africa unless it has a seal and a made from label saying not made in Africa.

Nobody is going to Africa for the food and culture. What fantasy world is that?

People go to Africa to cover wars, look at animals, maybe fleece some people of stuff they have buried under ground. Only one of those is touristy and that's the animals.

Hunting is not some massive source of income at all. Tourism is.


Who gives a fuck about lions killing people? It's not like we're running out. 4 billion on that continent alone.

You want me to feel sorry for people that encroached on the limited habitat of an endangered predator and paid the price for it?

Really?

It seems like you're grasping at straws here. Really has nothing to do with the money conversation we're having. Stick to one subject at a time please. Otherwise this will get messy.

 

[spamking]

Some people just look for stuff to get butt hurt about . . . I love to hunt, but I'm not sure I'd be in line to go hunt a lion . . . other, more plentiful species sure.

 

[sleepwalk]

for this story, xanda went off park grounds and where all the wild lions are. idk how the hunter was supposed to know which lion is which

Mmm hmm.

So, what you're saying is that: He should have "known his place" and that "they all look alike." I suppose next you'll refer to him as nothing more than "a wild animal."

 

[Quipling]

Guides, yes. But the land-owners that are paid to raise animals for the hunt are local, and paying to hunt on that land staves off urbanization, the loss of animal habitats and helps prolong what is an inevitable outcome for endangered, or soon to be endangered species.

This is a generally valid point (I'd quibble some particulars, but they're not relevant to the overall thrust), but one not relevant to this story, because Xanda was raised on national park on which hunting was forbidden, and killed just outside it on public lands - and Zimbabwe is sufficiently corrupt that pretty much none of the money goes to local landowners.

 

[S-dot]

No. The reality is that most of the money is siphoned off by corrupt local governments and never make it to animal conservation efforts.

To determine whether or not trophy hunting is living up to its billing as a conservation tool, we conducted comprehensive reviews of the academic literature, conservation programs in the four target countries, and the FWS import permitting program.

In assessing the flow of trophy hunting revenue to conservation efforts, we found many troubling examples of funds either being diverted from their purpose or not being dedicated to conservation in the first place.

Several reports, including one from the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) in 2013, outline the failure of Tanzanian authorities to manage land and wildlife effectively, and show little evidence that trophy hunting is contributing positively to wildlife conservation.

Despite significant support from international NGOs and foreign governments, including the United States, the CAMPFIRE program has been poorly administered and the government has been incapable of delivering the promised improvements in wildlife conservation or community development.

On the whole, though, the evidence shows that trophy hunting is having negative impacts across sub Saharan Africa. According to scientists, unsustainably high rates of trophy hunting have caused population declines in African lions and possibly African leopards.

Freedom House notes that "corruption remains a serious problem, and is pervasive in all aspects of political and commercial life

While trophy hunting industry proponents assert that the presence of hunting operations deters poaching, there is no evidence of such an effect.

That's just the way things operate in much of Africa unfortunately. No matter if people were paying to hunt or conserve, a lot of the money would be siphoning off because of corruption. The hunters are paying and so there's an incentive to the corrupt to maintain the hunting industry. If conservationists put up the money the issues would change, the poaching would stay at whatever level was sustainable so the local chiefs can make money via the poachers and the conservationists.

 

[freaky]

I'm sorry apparently I've been living under a rock for the past century but who the fook is Xanda and Cecil?

 

[jefferz]

I'm sorry apparently I've been living under a rock for the past century but who the fook is Xanda and Cecil?

Lions that hunters shot legally.