Stories of Rickson | Page 5

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Ishaq, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    Greg Gibson actually won a world title in sombo in 1981 or 1982. He was the 1st and I believ only American to do so. He was also a world/Olympic medalist in Greco and freestyle and a NCAA D I All American. Talk about a versatile wrestler. The interview I am referring to I got here http://www.onthemat.com/node/1011898But sadly its so old the link is now inactive.
     
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  2. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    I thought that was the case, but I didn't see it on his Wikipedia page so I thought it was someone else. Glad I wasn't hallucinating, but someone should update that page.
     
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  3. snowdale White Belt

    snowdale
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    Naaah, never. I started to follow grappling sports as an adult, and have no much time and opportunities to visit events. I mean job, family and other stuff, you know.
     
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  4. snowdale White Belt

    snowdale
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    Well I have found he talked about this himself:
    https://o-sambo.livejournal.com/10359.html

    He won USSR Military Sambo championship (and not even all-military but kind of USSR National Guard Sambo Championship). Not a big accomplishment I think, but still.
     
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  5. Ilk Orange Belt

    Ilk
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    This is exactly what I do not like about Gracies. Like against which legit fighter exactly they fought and won? I have a huge respect about BJJ, it is a very technical MA and well developed, but everything around it screams scam. The entire idea of some Gracie challenging some unknown fighters with no olympic back ground whatsoever and winning in a rule set that favours their style. Can you please come and remind me is there any Olympic Gold Medalist in wrestling from this family? Have they fought someone with an Olympic Medal?

    Most of the documented fights I see is - `this guy is some champion in Russia in something (some low competition sport such as judo or sambo for example) and he has a background in ... boxing. Then you see the bum and even the average sherdogger would have knocked out that guy.
     
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  6. snowdale White Belt

    snowdale
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    It was 1982 Sambo world championship. He won gold in "under 100kg" category. He is not the only one to do so, because some American in 1991 did that too in "under 48kg" category. Maybe there is more guys, but I don't know. You can search all results here (it is in russian):
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Чемпионат_мира_по_самбо
     
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  7. snowdale White Belt

    snowdale
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    >Judo
    >Low competiton sport
    WTF I am reading? LMAO.
     
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  8. Lenny7 Blue Belt

    Lenny7
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    These Rickson threads alway descend into really dumb arguments. Countless top JJ black belts have given their accounts of rolling with Rickson and they pretty much all say the same thing. He was the best. Some truth, some exaggeration, sure. Either way I enjoy hearing the first hand or heck, even second hand stories about him.
     
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  9. Ilk Orange Belt

    Ilk
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    Well its not like you talk with your colleague about the Judo Olympics. However he may have seen the boxing or wrestling olympics. I for example try to follow wrestling and boxing. Have seen some karate championships, although they are kind of boring. My friends from the hood will follow pro boxing and some amateur boxing matches, as boxing is big in Europe. So unless you live in Japan, judo is really small. And even in Japan Judo is overshadowed by aikido and karate.
     
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  10. Ryo Black Belt

    Ryo
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    You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Judo is one of the most competitive MA (if not the most) in the world. There is enough nonsense in this forum without more contribution.
     
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  11. PointyShinyBurn Purple Belt

    PointyShinyBurn
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    Wayback Machine to the rescue! https://web.archive.org/web/20140717061220/http://www.onthemat.com/node/1011898
     
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  12. Cold187um White Belt

    Cold187um
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    The only thing that I take away from all the Rickson stories is that no one ever says they got him or came close to getting him or anything like that. Especially the way that people are now that this would be someones big claim to fame the same way you see a youtube video or see some story about somebody getting a bucket on Kobe or even MJ at this point.
     
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  13. Ilk Orange Belt

    Ilk
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    True story http://judoinfo.com/champs2/. I have absolutely an idea of what I am talking about. As MA go in Olympics - wrestling and boxing dominate the competition. Boxing is the highest tier MA represented in the olympics with professionals regularly coming out of it. Wrestling holds second place with huge competition also and not one country dominating it - you have small countries such as Bulgaria, Azerbaydzan on many ex Soviet republics doing very well and with traditions in the sport. Judo is dominated from Japanese judokas, because only in Japan care about Judo.

    Back to my point. Debunking the Gracie myth. Which legit fighter did they fought and under what rule set. I am really curious about that. And did they do anything significant in Olympic Wrestling?
     
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  14. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    Judo is not dominated by the Japanese. They do well, but the French, Koreans, Russians, Georgians, Armenians, Germans, and many other countries consistently win medals at the Olympics. Judo has athletes enter from as many countries as wrestling or boxing, it's a very competitive international sport. People care a great deal about Judo outside of Japan. You're simply incorrect on this point by pretty much any measure.

    And whether the Gracies fought any Olympic wrestlers is an odd thing to focus on. I don't know that there were too many Olympic wrestlers looking to fight in the early days of MMA, the only ones that come to mind that fought in even relatively early events (in the late 90s) were Dan Henderson, Mark Coleman, Mark Schultz, and Kevin Jackson. And they had mixed success. Coleman and Henderson went on to have very successful careers, Schultz and Jackson (the best wrestlers of the group, both Olympic gold medalists) retired with only a few fights and middling records. Incidentally, for both of them their losses were all by submission. In any case, I'm not sure which Olympic wrestler you would have liked to have seen them fight, and how you think they would have done. It probably would have been like most of their early fights: they get taken down or pull guard, and then choke or armbar the guy. It doesn't really matter how good someone is at wrestling if they don't know anything about submissions. And if you say 'well, they could have learned some submission defense and then what' I'd say you're taking the Gracies out of their era and comparing them to the beginnings of true MMA which as I originally said I don't think they'd do very well in.

    Wrestling is a core discipline of modern MMA, but success in wrestling alone just means you're a great wrestler, not a great mixed martial artist. Focusing on any one set of credentials outside of MMA doesn't really tell you much other than that the guy's athletic and talented. While that's not nothing, it's not a guarantee of success.
     
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  15. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    This is fantastic info my man. Thank you very much! I cant read any of it, would you mind translating as much of it as possible? Especially anything sombo related?
     
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  16. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    #96
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  17. PointyShinyBurn Purple Belt

    PointyShinyBurn
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    It's an SF non-profit that basically spiders as much of the internet as they can can saves it for posterity. Stick a URL in https://web.archive.org/ and it will show you as much history as possible.
     
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  18. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    There is some crossover between the Gracie family and Olympic caliber/world class wrestlers. I thought you and @Uchi Mata might find this interesting with regards to the discussion you were having.

    -Ryan Gracie fought and beat Kazuhiro Hamanaka in PRIDE. Hamanaka was a very very good freestyle wrestler. Competed against Cael Sanderson at the 2000 University World Championships and made a Japanese world team.

    -Royce Gracie choked out Dan Severn at UFC 4. Severn made the 1985 world team and was very close to making the 84 Olympic freestyle team. Severn was also a world cup champ and won junior worlds.

    -Roger Gracie has defeated Trevor Prangley who was close to making the Olympic team in South Africa and was a 2x All American in college here in the USA. He also defeated Kevin Randleman who was an amazing wrestler, 2x NCAA champ 3x NCAA finalist and defeated Olympians and world team guys.

    -Kron has already defeated a world level Greco guy in Asen Yamamoto.

    -Daniel Gracie submitted Shinsuke Nakamura, a damn good freestyle wrestler who has made a Japanese Jr world team and wrestled Mark Munoz in the Jr world championships. Daniel also defeated Takashi Sugiura who was at one time the top 82 kilo Greco guy in Japan and placed 4th at the Asian Championships.

    Additionally, Rener Gracie received an offer to wrestl at Princeton University. Ive heard they offered him scholarship money. And interestingly, Rolles, Gregor, and Igor Gracie all spent time from 2013-2016 wrestling in senior level world freestyle competition. Rolles actually had a really good shot of representing Brazil at the Rio Olympics. He competed in and placed in a few big senior freestyle tournaments during this time. So to sum up, there has actually been a ton of cases were Gracies competed against top notch, legit, world class wrestlers and have done very well.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  19. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    Thank you!
     
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  20. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    There are a few others you can add to that list of Olympians who competed in MMA before the millennium:

    Kenny Monday Fought once in 1997 and won impressively. Actually defeated UFC vet and MMA pioneer John Lewis.

    Dennis Hall was a Greco world champ and Olympic silver medalist, he fought in Japan in 1997 and was submitted.

    Matt Lindland Im certain you know his story.

    Randy Couture was about as close to being an Olympian as once can be. Hes made world teams which is just as impressive and hes won all the national and international Olympic qualifiers.

    Zaza Tkeshelashvili wrestled in the 96 Olympics for Georgia
    and fought MMA a whole bunch of times.

    Bakouri Gogitidze was another Georgian Olympian and world medalist in Greco. He fought MMA many times and lost to Dan Henderson once.

    Then there are other guys who were Olympic caliber and made world teams and won big international medals and fought MMA pre 2000 like:

    Mark Kerr
    Mike van Arsdale
    Rico Chiapparelli
    Frank Trigg
    Vladdy Matyushenko
    Kazuyuki Fujita
    Martin Lazarov
    Hiroya Takada
    Koba Tkeshelashvili
    There may be a few Im forgetting as well.
     
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