Stock Legit Strength Numbers | Page 2

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Overtures, Jun 12, 2017.

  1. miaou barely keeping it together

    miaou
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    6,204
    Likes Received:
    421
    It depends on how you interpret the question: "What are good target numbers for someone who just wants to be strong, not like exceptionally strong. So bascially just a good baseline for when legit strength starts in comparison to the non-lifter."

    Most average-sized men who lift for a year, and have a lot lower numbers, will be stronger (at least in terms of lifting numbers) than most non-lifting dudes.

    On the other hand, for an average-sized male, those numbers are not strong compared to experienced lifters (assuming they've been lifting for strength and not solely for aesthetics). Compared to experienced lifters, it's more like respectable numbers of somebody who is not exceptionally strong but can "hold his own", so to speak.

    I think that reaching these numbers one can consider himself "strong" but "not like exceptionally strong".
     
    #21
  2. LatFlare EADC

    LatFlare
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    6,389
    Likes Received:
    2,069
    I love the butthurt in these "what is strong" threads
     
    #22
    corpse likes this.
  3. MatterOverMind Pulling for you

    MatterOverMind
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    6,101
    Likes Received:
    186
    Location:
    Deadlift alley
    Exactly.

    Comparing the goal of someone trying to get strong to the goals of people who are focused on a given sport or on aesthetics doesn't make any sense and isn't what the OP asked about.

    Let's be honest here, it was a stupid question to begin with (and in the "forbidden topics", no?). So, I threw out some numbers. But it would be foolish to think that those numbers would be right for everyone.

    That would make you stronger than about half of the kids on a high school football team.
     
    #23
  4. Cmart Aspiring Milo

    Cmart
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2003
    Messages:
    10,879
    Likes Received:
    1,647
    That's a very subjective question, maybe a silly one, but the way I read it is: When do your gym lifts begin to separate you from the general public in terms of strength? So I'm from a town of farm kids, construction workers, mill workers, cement block plant workers, and so on. I throw out the outliers; the freaky strong ones and also the librarian and the accountants, and then the old 1x press, 1.5x bench, 2x squat and 2.5x deadlift sounds reasonable as a comparison point.

    When does legit strength start in comparison to the non-lifter? When you're stronger than most of them, even the ones with reasonable strength formed by other means. That's my opinion. Maybe those marks are a little high, but the question wasn't "How much do I have to lift before I'm as strong as the average non-lifter?" It's about separating ones self from the crowd.

    Then comes this guy:

    That's not typical, that's low. A guy who can barely squat or deadlift his bodyweight is, in terms of strength, untrained. If that's what they're getting after a year of hard training, something is lacking with their training. And a gym with the strongest guy in it having a 1.5x bench and a squat and deadlift "not close to compete 2x bw" is a gym that would lose in a friendly matchup with a typical Planet Fitness, if not Curves.
     
    #24
    DoubleAAZ likes this.
  5. Ilk Orange Belt

    Ilk
    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    138
    I think you greatly over estimate the strength of the average dude that does not lift based on the perception of your environment and the gym culture in your country.

    I have been there and I d like to say that squaring 40 kg was a real challenge. I have lived in 3 countries and I move places very often. Regular people are not strong. I have visited gyms in Spain, Turkey, Bulgaria, Ukraine people were doing mostly curls and there were not even squad racks.

    In conclusion we live in different places thus having different perceptions. I do not want to argue, but you are trying hard to insult me or make me defensive.
     
    #25
  6. NurseKnuckles My Mom's stronger than you belt

    NurseKnuckles
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    9,289
    Likes Received:
    994
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario
    He's asking a bunch of people who train or used to train what strong is, of course our perception will be different. We also know that with some hard work, dedication and a plan you can achieve those numbers. Those numbers are high, yes. But I wouldn't consider someone strong who couldn't achieve them.
     
    #26
    MeatPlow likes this.
  7. Cmart Aspiring Milo

    Cmart
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2003
    Messages:
    10,879
    Likes Received:
    1,647
    I don't think the thread starter's goal was to find how strong the average person is (or isn't). I read it as wanting to know when one can be considered strong when compared to typical people. That, as opposed to being compared to athletes or strength competitors.

    The metrics given may be a little high for what you've experienced, but then we're looking to differentiate, not find the common denominator.

    I'm not trying to be terribly insulting but come on, you can't just say "everyone in my gym is weak, therefore your point is invalid" and then not expect a response. I'm sure there are strong people in all the places you've visited. You should seek out the places where they congregate.
     
    #27
  8. JimRussel Purple Belt

    JimRussel
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,094
    Likes Received:
    967
    Most regular dudes who don't lift wouldn't even be able to bench 225, squat 315, or deadlift 405.

    I've been lifting for 8+ years and know a lot of dudes, even those who train, that can't hit those numbers. Some of my university buddies I used to train with on occasion definitely couldn't.

    If you can hit those numbers, you're stronger than just about everyone who doesn't train.
     
    #28
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
    mcveteran81 and chubbman like this.
  9. RawHawg Brown Belt

    RawHawg
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,798
    Likes Received:
    2,863
    I once knew a guy who had 225 on a bar near his front door, and he said out of maybe 100 people over the years who tried to deadlift it (non lifters), only 1 actually completed the lift. I would 2nd that a bodyweight bench press for one rep may be a good starting, baseline measure of strength.
     
    #29
  10. jrams Brown Belt

    jrams
    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Messages:
    4,665
    Likes Received:
    2,980
    Location:
    Beantown
    500lb bench, squat, deadlift.
     
    #30
    mike sherry likes this.
  11. JauntyAngle International man of mystery

    JauntyAngle
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2006
    Messages:
    7,434
    Likes Received:
    690
    Location:
    Classified
    True, but it's what I've seen in the gyms I've been to around the Middle East, Asia and Africa since I left the UK in 2002. I think in all that time I've seen no more than 3 people squat or deadlift three plates. I've seen slightly higher benches, but I think I have seen someone benching more than 220 maybe two or three times, and never seen anyone bench 305.

    I agree that 'strong' shouldn't be defined as 'strong relative to the people in your gym'. But I think people who haven't travelled much, especially in the developing world, might be surprised how few people who are remotely strong there are out there.
     
    #31
  12. MeatPlow Orange Belt

    MeatPlow
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    66
    Location:
    Kentucky
    What baffles me is how much people train and really give some solid effort but still stay weak. I've been a few gyms around the world and I've not been impressed.

    my friend trains at a local Powerhouse gym and he said if I walked in and started lifting the place would come to a halt.
     
    #32
    Phlog likes this.
  13. miaou barely keeping it together

    miaou
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    6,204
    Likes Received:
    421
    That probably has to do with a) the "gym culture", and maybe also b) the size (your average adult Thai male has a substantially smaller/thinner frame than people in the west world).

    You go to any commercial gym here in Greece and benching 100 kg for reps is commonplace.

    Squats used to be super rare back in the day (forget about weight, I'm talking about the exercise itself), then at some point repping 130 kg seemed heavy (people thought you'd blow out your back and knees), but nowadays three plates are becoming very common.

    In crossfit gyms, 3 plate squats and 4 plate deadlifts are super commonplace among the people who train more "seriously" than just participate in the 1-hour group classes.
     
    #33
    Cmart and NurseKnuckles like this.
  14. Cmart Aspiring Milo

    Cmart
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2003
    Messages:
    10,879
    Likes Received:
    1,647
    It's true, I am basically considering my experience in farm boy country and the military for what I gauge "typical people" to be like. I have no interest in comparing my strength to the weakest people I can think of. Once I'm stronger than the typical physically capable working adult -- again farmers, construction workers, mill workers, plant workers... then I feel like I've improved my strength enough to differentiate myself.

    I guess I could go visit third world counties where a person would be much stronger than average just by virtue of not being malnourished, and then stand out that way. That's certainly not a metric I'm interested in tracking.
     
    #34
  15. JimRussel Purple Belt

    JimRussel
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,094
    Likes Received:
    967
    You can go to the training logs here and find that lol.

    We also recently saw in the deadlift competition thread that some people have literally no idea how to push themselves when it comes to lifting weights.

    Well, you're pretty damn strong, man.
     
    #35
    MeatPlow likes this.
  16. NurseKnuckles My Mom's stronger than you belt

    NurseKnuckles
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    9,289
    Likes Received:
    994
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario
    I'm a baffler, then. I make some gains, then stop. Make a little more, then stop. I hate blaming life's circumstances, but... life's circumstances. I don't let it bother me too much . I can't help but get down on myself every so often because I see people push past me but its all good. I can shake it off, and keep plugging away. Its a really slow chip at the stone these days. I figure with the rate I'm going I will be considered strong by the time I'm 40. LOL
     
    #36
    MeatPlow likes this.
  17. JauntyAngle International man of mystery

    JauntyAngle
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2006
    Messages:
    7,434
    Likes Received:
    690
    Location:
    Classified
    True. Although I've been to commercial gyms in a few other countries, like Turkey and Jordan, and seen the same thing.

    Here in Amman there are a lot of big guys- it seems like half the guys in the gym are at least pretty jakt, and some are huge. But they don't really bench that heavy. I might have seen a few people repping a hundred kg a few times I guess. These big guys seem to spend more time on incline and decline, dumbbells and machines. And I almost never see any of them squat. And I think the whole time I've been working out here in Amman I've seen maybe one person squat to parallel with more than 100kg.

    There are definitely a few people around who can move more weight- a guy comes and practices Oly in the upstairs section and moves some decent weights. But they are pretty rare.
     
    #37
  18. JimRussel Purple Belt

    JimRussel
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,094
    Likes Received:
    967
    You also have a career, beautiful wife/family, awesome house, and spend a lot lot of time and effort giving back to others.
     
    #38
  19. JauntyAngle International man of mystery

    JauntyAngle
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2006
    Messages:
    7,434
    Likes Received:
    690
    Location:
    Classified
    Kind of off-topic now but, I don't know how much you've travelled, but 'third world' isn't a very reliable measure of things these days. And you have to travel quite a bit to find someone who is malnourished.

    By way of an illustration- I spent my teenage years in a small former mining town in the North of England, and still have a bunch of friends from there. They often come out to visit me where I am working. I've had friends from there visit me in Thailand many times, in Turkey, Beirut, Jordan, Malaysia and South Korea. For some time now, my friends have been blown away by how much more fun and cosmopolitan these places (or the big cities anyway) are then their small town in the North of England. Better bars, better restaurants, better cultural scene. More international outlook. Obviously, it's the rich part of these countries... but I can tell you that if you ever travel from Beirut or Bangkok and go to Barnsley or Middlesborough, you will feel like you are traveling to the 'third world'. I am sure there are a bunch of small rural towns in the US where you'd have the same feeling.
     
    #39
    Phlog and DoubleAAZ like this.
  20. NurseKnuckles My Mom's stronger than you belt

    NurseKnuckles
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    9,289
    Likes Received:
    994
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario
    Shit! Nobody visits Middlesborough, England, so I wouldn't expect them to have put any emphasis on developing those sorts of things. visiting Bangkok is probably the worst place to go if you want to see Thailand. Wouldn't you agree?
     
    #40

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"