Stipe is clearly the hw mma goat “if” he beat Cormier.

jenspulverizer said:
10 years of dominance until he fought real fighters like a much older smaller Hendo and got KTFO
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yes, out of his prime, in a cage, with different rules....against someone on TRT.
Amazing how you don't count those things.... but then again, no one said haters would be fair.
 
welcometohavoc said:
Can't bring up the 10 years dominance when the guy was fighting people like HMC, Zuluzhino, Ogawa, TK, Yuji Nagata.

Every single guy Stipe has fought since winning the title has been top 5
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Fedor fought on average 3 fights per year... for 17 years.
Miocic fought about 2 times per year.
Add one of those fights each year and he would have fought the same amount of Zuluzinhos... and he still lost. Fedor won.
 
GOAT is too much of a Buzzword these days, and the concept isn't really tangible anyhow given time, training, PEDs, competition and maneuvering.

Perception and favorite's will always taint the conversation.

That said - no - and Fedor.
 
Shaddows said:
Fedor fought on average 3 fights per year... for 17 years.
Miocic fought about 2 times per year.
Add one of those fights each year and he would have fought the same amount of Zuluzinhos... and he still lost. Fedor won.
Click to expand...

There are no Zuluzhinos in the UFC lol.
 
Myrddin Wild said:
Good find on that list. A lot of those numbers are really questionable... but like you said, it depends on who's doing the rankings. They're most likely somewhere in the ballpark though.

Anywayz... My method has nothing to do with TS or the OP. It's my personal method for defining whether a GOAT point should be given for a particular fight. Fedor is by far the most challenging GOAT to do this for.

I don't understand how you can ignore what happens to a fighter after they fight the GOAT. It shows where they were truly at. It takes something away from the win for example if that person never wins another fight against top competition. It shows they were washed up all ready. It wasn't the excellence of the GOAT, it was the person's personal decline. However, if that same person showed up in very obvious top looking form when they fought the GOAT then that would over rule my method even if that person never won another fight in their life. Hope that makes sense.

Coleman is a perfect example of his post Fedor fight record proving he was washed up. It's real easy to just throw Coleman up & say he was ranked 4th at the time of their first fight, so that's a legit win for Fedor. His history after that fight though tells the story of an old man in his twilight. You see some of the build up to his decline prior to the Fedor fight... but at the time we all were just speculating if he still had it. Afterward, we knew he had lost a step... but it's what happened in the other fights after that fight that tells us the true story. It wasn't just Fedor's greatness that beat Coleman. It's that Coleman had gotten old & was not the same Coleman.

In their first fight, Coleman was off a really nice win streak on paper... & I don't doubt he was ranked 4th at the time. however, what the ranking doesn't show is that he took 2 years off after his loss to Nog, he came back to beat a twilight version of Don Frye... & then took another year off before fighting Fedor. So Coleman was 3 years removed from his win streak at the time. Something happened in those 3 years... & it's evidenced by his record after those 3 years.
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There was a more intensive analysis a few years ago that tried to aggregate the rankings from three sources to make a more accurate ranking.

If people are going to retroactively grade Fedor's opponents years later, then I think it's unfair to even judge Stipe until his reign has been over a few years and his opponents can be gauged the same way. Ngannou for sure is a question mark and Arlovski and Hunt are long past their peaks. Reem and JDS aren't in their prime either. Werdum is an amazing BJJ expert but mediocre with takedowns and striking.

In the end I give credit to Fedor whenever he fought legit ranked, at teh time, top ten opponents. I don't consider him in the running for all around GOAT because his strength of competition wasn't consistent at all. He also didn't fight and beat the number of top 5 guys that GSP, Silva and Jones have. But the fact that he didn't get caught during his long win streak and did fight top ten guys for the most part in PRIDE is worthy of praise.
 
Fedor doesn’t lay and pray.
 
fartsniffer said:
How about you tell me who you think are the elite fighters.
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you are the one claiming he fought 90% cans.
Tell me who they are.

...or admit you are a hypocrite dumbass that obviously should not be taken seriously.
 
It's pretty obvious that stipe's run is already more impressive than Fedor's and it's also painfully obvious that stipe would murk him, prime vs prime

Who cares what a dick rider has to say.
 
Shaddows said:
you are the one claiming he fought 90% cans.
Tell me who they are.

...or admit you are a hypocrite dumbass that obviously should not be taken seriously.
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It's easier to list the elite fighters because the cans far exceed them in number.
 
FrodoFraggins said:
There was a more intensive analysis a few years ago that tried to aggregate the rankings from three sources to make a more accurate ranking.

If people are going to retroactively grade Fedor's opponents years later, then I think it's unfair to even judge Stipe until his reign has been over a few years and his opponents can be gauged the same way. Ngannou for sure is a question mark and Arlovski and Hunt are long past their peaks. Reem and JDS aren't in their prime either. Werdum is an amazing BJJ expert but mediocre with takedowns and striking.

In the end I give credit to Fedor whenever he fought legit ranked, at teh time, top ten opponents. I don't consider him in the running for all around GOAT because his strength of competition wasn't consistent at all. He also didn't fight and beat the number of top 5 guys that GSP, Silva and Jones have. But the fact that he didn't get caught during his long win streak and did fight top ten guys for the most part in PRIDE is worthy of praise.
Click to expand...
You make some good points... & I agree that it's too soon to compare Stipe's career to Fedor's career. The weekly GOAT thread that seems to emerge is bunk for these reasons. We have a full & complete view on Fedor' GOAT run... but Stipe's GOAT run is in progress... so the data is incomplete.
 
I just dont think Fedor would do well against Stipe at all. I think Stipe would just sleep him easy.
 
fartsniffer said:
It's easier to list the elite fighters because the cans far exceed them in number.
Click to expand...
then by all means, please list the elite ones.... and it has to be only 10% of fighters, meaning all others are cans (per your own description).
 
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