Stipe is clearly the hw mma goat “if” he beat Cormier.

One MMA Fan said:
I feel Fedor broke Tim and Brett and that at the end of his prime. To me those are good wins under those circumstances in that time.

Stipe is great but you have to feel something when you see JDS and Reem go out like that.. he needs proper opponents to get that GOAT tittle but hey it's not his fault this is the current landscape he is beating everyone that is put in front of him.
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I don't think you understand my method. Reem beat Hunt & Werdum after losing to Stipe. That's a no brainer GOAT point for Stipe.

Your point about JDS is more valid... so maybe we keep JDS as a "pending GOAT point" until we see how he does when he comes back. I did the same thing with Mouse's win over Borg. I can't quite give Mouse a GOAT point for beating Borg until I see him fight another legit person.

It is a little strange to not give a GOAT point to someone who was on fire prior to the loss to the GOAT... but Tim Silvia was 1 - 2 in his last 3 prior to fighting Fedor, & so an argument could be made that he started slipping before the Fedor fight. If anyone stole Tim's soul... it waz Couture.

Brett was undefeated going into the Fedor fight, but he only fought one top guy. It was a good one in Arlovski... but it was also an Arlovski on a skid. However, you gotta give Brett good credit for the Arlovski win. That said, Fedor & Arlovski are literally his only 2 high end fights of his whole career. I just don't see how we can give Fedor a GOAT point for that.
 
Myrddin Wild said:
What's wrong with those guys?

Sobrol & Arona were LHW's, but keep in mind that Fedor was a very small HW. I'm not sure what those guys walked around at, but if they cut any weight at all to get to LHW, they would be in the neighborhood of Fedor's weight. Both went on to have great wins after Fedor.

Monson was one I added recently because someone called me out & insisted Monson was legit... so I looked deeper into it. Just by the fact that he beat Alexey Oleynik in his next fight makes him legit. He also went on to beat Fedor's brother... & whatever about that, you only need one good one imo. The idea of the way I did my list is to weed out victories over people who never had another legit top competition win. This not only weeds out people who fight cans, but also weeds out people who are in the twilight of their career. You get no GOAT points for either. Monson is a legit GOAT point.
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I'm with you brother. :D
 
Myrddin Wild said:
I don't think you understand my method. Reem beat Hunt & Werdum after losing to Stipe. That's a no brainer GOAT point for Stipe.

Your point about JDS is more valid... so maybe we keep JDS as a "pending GOAT point" until we see how he does when he comes back. I did the same thing with Mouse's win over Borg. I can't quite give Mouse a GOAT point for beating Borg until I see him fight another legit person.

It is a little strange to not give a GOAT point to someone who was on fire prior to the loss to the GOAT... but Tim Silvia was 1 - 2 in his last 3 prior to fighting Fedor, & so an argument could be made that he started slipping before the Fedor fight. If anyone stole Tim's soul... it waz Couture.

Brett was undefeated going into the Fedor fight, but he only fought one top guy. It was a good one in Arlovski... but it was also an Arlovski on a skid. However, you gotta give Brett good credit for the Arlovski win. That said, Fedor & Arlovski are literally his only 2 high end fights of his whole career. I just don't see how we can give Fedor a GOAT point for that.
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Not sure.. but will report you just to be safe.

full
 
3sumrock said:
If he beat Cormier( the best lhw of all time)
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Wand and Chuck had long reigns and won resspective belts during their reigns, Rampage won and unified Pridefc and UFC LHW championships, Shogun won a Grand Prix and later on a UFC title

You have DC in that mix of greats?? His biggest win is a split decision vs Gus and two wins over a bloated and overhyped Rumble Johnson. He’s only competed at LHW 9 times
 
It's true that Stipe has a tougher competition on a per-fight basis because Fedor mixed in low-tier competition among his more serious fights, but I don't really think it's enough of a difference to overcome the length of Fedor's streak combined with top wins (not title defenses per se, but top 10 type wins), combined with the fact that he lost twice while Fedor didn't really lose until Werdum.

Fedor is getting increasingly underrated due to time, the UFC effect, and him fighting way past his expiration date (and not trying to evolve with the times).
 
Stipe is clearly the HW goat if he beats a blown up LHW? OK...
 
Phi- said:
This is the second time I read "Sobrol" today which means it's not a typo. Either I haven't seen all of Fedors fights and there is a legit HW contender named Sobrol I don't know about or you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Please, stop arguing about this shit. If you believe Babalu, Arona and Monson are legit opponents for world class HWs that's your right. But again, please: shut the fuck up about "keep in mind that Fedor is also very small" and "someone is legit world class if he beat Oleynik". Just stop. Either they are legit HW contenders or they are not, I don't care for you bringing up stupid arguments to defend an equally stupid opinion.

No hard feelings though.
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Can we just discuss things without you going overboard about it.... like just present your opinion without the insults? I've said in this thread that I'm open for my method to be questioned... & I'm glad if it is... because I want to know the truth of things... I just don't care for the insults.

What makes someone a legit fight for a GOAT? How do you determine if someone is legit, if not to look at who else they beat?

Monson beating Oley in the very next fight is a strong argument. I'll give you that Oley spent the next year crushing cans, but after that year he started getting into the deep end. I can see your point that Monson & Oley were not absolute top guys, but they were definitely in the game... & definitely not canz or easy wins. I'd say you do have some grounds for consideration in your argument but it's not as cut n dry as you're making it out to be imo. I'm trying to weed out cans & old timers... & Monson wasn't either at the time... but I see your point that if we're comparing Stipe's wins to the guys who were at the very top (such as his last 6) then the Monson fight doesn't quite match the level of competition.

Your points are more understandable for the LHW's... however Arona did beat Reem later on in his career and that's pretty legit, but Arona did spend most of his career in lower weight classes. It definitely takes something away from the victory that they were lighter guys, but it also doesn't mean nothing. I'll have to stew this over a bit.

@One MMA Fan
 
Prince Nephilim said:
10 years in Pride...

where they didn't have any type of athletic commission and in a orgainization that encouraged fighters to use PED's
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So what you are saying is that they actually had an even playing field, unlike the current UFC?
 
not clearly at all.
the fedor that beat nog the first time beats the bricks off of the best stipe "got kod by struve" miocic can ever get.
 
Myrddin Wild said:
Monson beating Oley in the very next fight is a strong argument. I'll give you that Oley spent the next year crushing cans, but after that year he started getting into the deep end. I can see your point that Monson & Oley were not absolute top guys, but they were definitely in the game... & definitely not canz or easy wins. I'd say you do have some grounds for consideration in your argument but it's not as cut n dry as you're making it out to be imo. I'm trying to weed out cans & old timers... & Monson wasn't either at the time... but I see your point that if we're comparing Stipe's wins to the guys who were at the very top (such as his last 6) then the Monson fight doesn't quite match the level of competition.
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Regarding your methods; Jeff is actually 1:1 against Oleynik. He won the first fight by a split decision and lost the second one via submission. I don't see how you could consider him a legit opponent for the world class level. But this is not about MMAth, you simply just have to watch Monson fight a few times to realize that he's nowhere near the level of Top10 HW fighters, especially not in the year 2011. His ground game is legit, but his cardio is terrible and his standup is non existant.

Your points are more understandable for the LHW's... however Arona did beat Reem later on in his career and that's pretty legit, but Arona did spend most of his career in lower weight classes. It definitely takes something away from the victory that they were lighter guys, but it also doesn't mean nothing. I'll have to stew this over a bit.
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Of course it doesn't mean nothing. Arona and Babalu are both beasts and veterans. But they are not HWs, which is why they would do really bad at HW. Size matters. I know that because people are making grimaces when I kick a pads they are holding with my 95kg. It hurts them now and it wasn't hurting them 10 years ago when I was like 15kg lighter (assuming my technique was ok back then). I put on muscle and I feel more powerful, but I'm not dumb enough to fight anybody that's just naturally bigger and broader than I am. A light sparring is all those guys can get out of me, because I know how it feels when stuff just doesn't work because the guy is too big. It's a really shit feeling when you worked on a technique for 2 years and then figure out it just doesn't apply because your opponent is a fucking monster that laughs at you like Superman laughs at incoming bullets. o_O

I'm obviously NOT a pro fighter and don't know shit about real pro training or what it means to be in the ring/octagon with many people watching every move. I'm really not trying to say any of the guys we mentioned are bad, but we are talking about the highest level there is in the strongest weightclass there is. The baddest man on the planet and such. If you want to be the baddest guy, you can't go "cut me some slack because I'm smaller". If you think you're smaller, change your weightclass, if you think you're not shut up and fight.
 
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Fedor's dominance of mma's best HW division, past or present, will be hard for anyone to surpass. Stipe is closing in tho.
 
Stipes gotta beat a demonstrably healthy Cain, beat DC, and get his lulzy Brock fight for the $$$ then he will be a goat contender and marketable
 
juncito said:
That's true but it's no different today. Remember JDS when carwin had that guillotine on him? JDS even has serious holes in his stand up. Or ngannou who is all stand up but extremely powerful. Werdum is very well rounded and so is Overeem but he falls at first contact.
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Jds destroyed carwin. He will destroy nog, because nog will never be able to take jds down and nog has no power in his boxing.
 
Myrddin Wild said:
You forgot to add "with 9 HW victories." That's pretty significant.
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Yeah guess I was kind of taking the piss on that comment.

My main gripe is that most people claiming Stipe is in HW GOAT contention couldn't even name 5 other guys in the conversation.
 
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